![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by Mark H. on April 12, 2000, at 12:04:34
In reply to Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing article, posted by Abby on April 12, 2000, at 0:31:35
I also found this series of articles disturbing -- you might want to read my note to April above (Re:April/NYT Article on Rampage Killers).
Speaking just for myself, my wife and I decided to give up gun ownership about 12 years ago, when a person came into our house dead drunk in the middle of the night, mistook me for someone else, and tried to throw me out my own front door. My wife, used to living in the country, was loading her pistol. Both of us weeks later realized we'd rather be killed than kill, even in self-defense, so I bought Sue one of those electronic stun guns instead. She's never had occasion to use it. I wouldn't impose my beliefs on anyone else; it's a very personal decision.
The series was disturbing to me, I think, because the "experts" cited (except for Kay Jamison, who is selling her new book on suicide) all sounded so ill-informed, with no subjective understanding of the phenomenon at all.
I hope someone with far better understanding than I have can offer a more reasonable critique. The articles were a step in the right direction, but they seemed to add little to the hope of prevention and early help for people who are so desperately ill.
Posted by AprilA. on April 12, 2000, at 15:01:16
In reply to Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing article, posted by Abby on April 12, 2000, at 0:31:35
Hi everyone-The TV listing for 48 Hours tonight on CBS is "Breaking Point" Difficulties in preventing the mentally ill from committing crimes. I thought some of you might be interested in it. AprilA.
Posted by Abby on April 12, 2000, at 16:59:53
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing article, posted by Sean on April 12, 2000, at 12:03:17
> Hmmm.
>
> Well, what if she wanted to buy an assault weapon?
> I think couching her desire to own an antique gun kinda
> borders on sophistry.My point was only this: there are so many possible individual
circumstances, and I doubt that the bureaucrats enforcing such
a law would be particularly enlightened.> First, I'm not convinced that gun ownership benefits
> society in general. I'd probably rather see hunting done
> with bows and arrows! And most of the "constitutional"
> arguments are based on the archaic notion that the
> people should be able to protect themselves from
> the government if needed. Well, that is impossible
> at this point. And statistically, the deaths from
> firearms in all countries which ban them are beyond
> contestation. Fewer guns means fewer deaths by guns.
> But I'm ok with gun ownership at this point (even
> though I was shot in the leg at age 8!)
Here's where we differ. I don't mind stricter gun control. I didn't realize until you posted that any country actually bans firearms outright. I mean, I know that the UK has much stricter laws, but there's still skeet shooting.
What I object to, is specifically discriminating against the mentally ill who, when medicated, are not statistically any more violent towards others than the rest of the population. A law which bans convicted felons and those committed to a psychiatric institution involuntarily from owning guns, makes it sound as though having a mental illness is itself a crime.
>
>> How about this analog: would you want to be in a
> plane with a pilot who has epilepsy? Even if this
> person is medicated, there isn't a neurologist in
> the world who would say "Mr. X will never have
> another siezure if he takes Depakote for the rest
> of his life." It may in fact be the case that
> Mr. X will NOT have another siezure. Then again, the
> odds are overwhelmingly higher for him than a
> person with a siezure-free history that he will.
> Similarly, I also don't know of a bipolar person who has
> recovered 100% even with medication. You have to
> fight this thing like cancer - it takes enormous
> willpower and guts.I have absolutely no problem with having a medicated epileptic flying a plane. That is why there are co-pilots. Everything in life is associated with risks. I think that if you're open about it and have appropriate safeguards in place, that it may actually be safer. An aware epileptic may be more careful about getting sleep, for example, and therefore more alert than another pilot. That's the question Kay Jamison asked about whether someone who suffers from a mental illness should be allowed to treat patients. Jamison seems to be more aware of her own fallibility and the limits of her knowledge that many
>
Abby
>
>
>
Posted by Jeff on April 12, 2000, at 18:58:57
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: a response to Mark, posted by Abby on April 12, 2000, at 16:59:53
I find it funny that there is even a debate on this issue. What about knives, pills, rope, carbon monoxide etc...If someone is suicidal they will find a way to off themselves. There are many well functioning depressives who have the capacity to reason right from wrong. I think the comparison of the epileptic piloting an aircraft is absurd. There is no revelance to that and a person taking a gun a shooting themselves. Who would be the judge anyway, the government, some panel of psychiatrists? Oh Mr. X is much too crazy for a gun but Mrs. Y is not. If guns are legal then they should be legal to everybody who has not comitted a crime. No one should be judged in advance for something the "might do".
Posted by bo~o~B! on April 12, 2000, at 19:45:15
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: a response to Mark, posted by Abby on April 12, 2000, at 16:59:53
> Well, since I seem !!obsessed!! with chiming in on every third thread on this site now... I can add that anyone convicted of domestic violence offenses, even misdemeanors, is now barred by federal law from not only owning, but also possessing a firearm. This had a real impact in some police departments and in the military within the past year. When you buy a gun at the store, you have to sign that you are not a chronic alcohol or drug user as well. So be it. That is where we are.
Me, I own a shotgun. They are legal in every state, the projectiles are less likely to travel through walls and you have a better chance of pulling off a shot at a leg or arm rather than having to hit the middle of somebody. I had been without a gun since I moved from a rural area into a metropolitan area. I covered some pretty scarry crimes recently and decided I would get a firearm. I sympathize with the fear of shooting an otherwise benign drunkard. I try to train my mind not to consider the firearm my only line of defense, pepper spray, obstructions near my doorway and well thought lighting are all intelligent elements to a physical defense plan. If someone is hurting my friends in a criminal act, though, I might decide to act decisively, including firing my shotgun. I was once in a situation where I refused to intervene per a woman's request who was being abused because my intervention would have put me in a situation where I might have relied on my handgun. She talked her way out of it.
I am just spilling some thoughts on this. I don't see anyone arguing here strictly for or against gun control - (no need to argue this next thought ---> its just thinking out loud, but I wonder if some people's mental distress is not correlated to their courageous willingness, or inescapable ability to see and believe opposing viewpoints).
For some of us, a gun provides a symbol, if not a practical device for assuring safety. For suicide prevention, there is a correlation between availability of efficient killing tools and suicide, but making it more difficult is far from the best idea for crisis intervention. There are likely some correlations between low community attachment, but it is not as easy for Joe Blow to win an election on a platform of building community attachment.
My feelings are mixed on the prohibition of firearms for domestic violence offenders. It seems to make sense, but I am also covering a story where the alleged victim cooked up her claim of abuse.
The hard part for me, when I owned a handgun in a rural area, was keeping up with trigger lock on, trigger lock off, loaded, unloaded, concealed (illegal but safe) not concealed (causes fear in peers), do I go into my very remote home armed, loaded and ready to fire? I was reporting conflicts that were later written up in books as being low grade war.
But, mental illness... this was about guns and mental illness. I guess that is part of why I defy diagnoses, because it is as much a legal nomenclature as a medical one. I am sad and lonely, if there is a medical name for that, I don't want to wear it. I know other peoples condition in more intractible than mine. I sat in a commitment hearing where this person said their problem was situational, but the I had earlier seen them publiclly demonstrating very bizarre facial expressions and behavior. The person said pmeds made them very sick. Anyway, meds or whatever, the person was typical of institutional populations in their strained countenance. And that is where the person went, under a court order.
Especially in poor black communities, guns have become a symbol of power. That bums me out bad, but the general powerlessness bothers me more than the choice of surrogate symbols. The BOOM sub-woofers actually bother me more. And the economic enequity bothers me most.
But all this "assault weapon" business, is pretty much symbolic. If you read the legal description of so called assualt weapons they are but a crude effort to reduce efficiency of legal firearms. Reducing magazine size would seem to tilt the odds a little bit in favor of the cops with better guns, but much of the language in those regs has to do with appearance. I was amused at a college paper, where students were likely forming opinions on regulation of assault weapons but could not even differentiate between a shotgun and a rifle in a story about a real crime. Anyhow, the laws effecting gun ownership by felons, people treated for mental illness and others deal with all firearms, not just handguns.
The thing I often consider odd is how we have so little fear of driving back and forth at high speeds, a few feet from a stranger who could collide with us at the flick of a wrist. I have been told of suicide by car events, and have heard of suicide/homicides by car. Guns, for all practical purposes, are regulated as symbols, and perhaps their regulation makes violence slightly less efficient, but controlling the tools of violence is hardly a way of controlling violence.
The control-the-governent aspect of gun ownership is not as archaic as people might think. during the vietnam war Nixon reportedly asked his aids how many people would be neccessary to storm and overcome whitehouse security. Unless a person has carefully considered the ways escalation of force serves political dialogue, they might be reacting more to a repulsion of force most of us feel (unless we were trained otherwise) than to a real understanding of the practical uses of limited force, as can be rendered with small arms. There is a strange kind of dialogue where people demand civility by threatening to withdraw civility. I can neither advocate nor strictly condemn the tactic. I just know it is there.
I would rather live in a world where everyone carrys than in one equipped with nukes. Unfortunatly, my choice is to live in this world as it is or not live. I guess I will live while i can.
Posted by LostBoyinNC on April 12, 2000, at 20:03:56
In reply to Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing article, posted by Abby on April 12, 2000, at 0:31:35
> This article in the NY Times really bothered me. I was struck by the fact that Utah has a law requiring certain schizophrenics to take medication, but it also has a law mandating that indigent patients be prescribed the least expensive anti-psychotics.
>
> Apparently, if you've ever been committed to a mental hospital, you are barred from buying a gun; it may be only handguns. I think that we can all agree that it's probably not a good idea for severely depressed people to be around guns because of the suicide risk. We've all been very worried about Harry for example.
>
> At the same time, suppose an 18 year-old has a first onset of manic-depressive illness and is committed because of a suicide attempt. She is evaluated and treated, both pharmacologically and psychotherapeutically, and does well for several years. When she's forty, she develops an interest in all things 18th century--clothing, furniture etc. and wants to buy an elegant dueling pistol for display. Why shouldn't she have the right to?
> Or is this a case of, once mentally ill always unreliable?
>
>
> Anyway, here's the article:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/041100rampage-killers.html
>
> AbbyMentally ill people should be able to buy a firearm providing they are not a danger to themselves or others and have been thoroughly treated. This gun control lobby is being pushed heavily by jews. Look at who is pushing the gun control the most. Senator Feinstein of California, a jew if there ever was one. Senator Howard Metzenbaum of Ohio who is retired was a big gun control advocate. There are plenty more where those came from and those jews are just the tip of the iceberg. Gun control is BAD, jews are BAD.
Most of the people on this board sound like wussies. A bunch of milksops. A bunch of people who are scared of everything and are politically very liberal. Gun control makes me sick. You people need to get some self esteem and stand up for yourselves. Quit being scared of everything. Do something physical for a change instead of picking flowers. Get a life, guns aint that bad.
Eric
Posted by LostBoyinNC on April 12, 2000, at 20:10:01
In reply to Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing article, posted by Abby on April 12, 2000, at 0:31:35
> This article in the NY Times really bothered me. I was struck by the fact that Utah has a law requiring certain schizophrenics to take medication, but it also has a law mandating that indigent patients be prescribed the least expensive anti-psychotics.
>
> Apparently, if you've ever been committed to a mental hospital, you are barred from buying a gun; it may be only handguns. I think that we can all agree that it's probably not a good idea for severely depressed people to be around guns because of the suicide risk. We've all been very worried about Harry for example.
>
> At the same time, suppose an 18 year-old has a first onset of manic-depressive illness and is committed because of a suicide attempt. She is evaluated and treated, both pharmacologically and psychotherapeutically, and does well for several years. When she's forty, she develops an interest in all things 18th century--clothing, furniture etc. and wants to buy an elegant dueling pistol for display. Why shouldn't she have the right to?
> Or is this a case of, once mentally ill always unreliable?
>
>
> Anyway, here's the article:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/041100rampage-killers.html
>
> AbbyFurthermore, restricting guns from mentally ill persons amounts to nothing but discrimination against the mentally ill. It says "we are not good enough" or "we are not equal to those who are not mentally ill." Restricting guns to mentally ill persons reinforces the stereotype we are all fighting that mentally ill people are all crazy or violent and should all be segregated or locked up.
You liberal wusses make me sick.
Eric
Posted by Cam W. on April 12, 2000, at 21:25:51
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing article, posted by LostBoyinNC on April 12, 2000, at 20:10:01
Driving home from work today I saw some idiot in my rearview mirror weaving back and forth between lanes; basically cutting people off in rush hour traffic. Being the curmugeon (old nosy fart) that I am, I decided to get in his way. I toddered over to his lane and cut him off as he tried to zip around a bus. Not really the brightest thing I have done in a while. This guy laid on the horn, so I slowed down. Well, someone must have peed in this guy's Corn Flakes today (probably me). He eventually pulled up beside me; I slowed - he slowed; I sped up - he sped up. He pulls along side again and makes a shooting motion with his fingers, pulls ahead of me and tries to force me over. I faked turning off onto an off-ramp and he went for it, scooting onto the off-ramp and I went merrily on my way.Well, maybe not entirely merrily. What if that had been a real gun. My being an asshole to piss off another asshole could have got me killed, karate or no (I still say the guy would have been minus a knee if he had stopped me and had no gun; which would have ended in no fun for either of us). I am kind of glad that guns are harder to get in Canada.
- Cam W.
Posted by bob on April 12, 2000, at 22:16:34
In reply to Re: Guns and Road Rage - Today, posted by Cam W. on April 12, 2000, at 21:25:51
See ... you folks up north outta just close the borders -- embargo products of "American" Culture. You're catching our sicknesses --
"Drivers are rude
Such attitudes
But when I show my piece
Complaints cease
Something's odd
I feel like I'm God
You stupid ....(I think I'll stop the quote there)"
Bad Habit -- Offspring.cheers,
bob
Posted by Janice on April 12, 2000, at 22:23:45
In reply to Re: Guns and Road Rage - Today, posted by bob on April 12, 2000, at 22:16:34
Canada, has 1/10 the murders of the US, and the two countries are very similar, culturally and historically.
Our murder rate is less because we have less guns.
I honestly don't know what I would have done if a gun had been available during one of my 'episodes.' Janice
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 12, 2000, at 23:06:36
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing article, posted by LostBoyinNC on April 12, 2000, at 20:03:56
> Gun control is BAD, jews are BAD.
>
> Most of the people on this board sound like wussies.Please be civil. It's fine to debate public policy, but it's unacceptable to call people names. If being civil is being a wussy, then this is a board for wussies.
This is a warning. If this continues, I'll have to try to block you from posting. Even though I hate doing that, being, I guess, a wussy myself.
Bob
Posted by michael on April 12, 2000, at 23:37:48
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing posts, posted by Dr. Bob on April 12, 2000, at 23:06:36
> > Gun control is BAD, jews are BAD.
> >
> > Most of the people on this board sound like wussies.
>
> Please be civil. It's fine to debate public policy, but it's unacceptable to call people names. If being civil is being a wussy, then this is a board for wussies.
>
> This is a warning. If this continues, I'll have to try to block you from posting. Even though I hate doing that, being, I guess, a wussy myself.
>
> BobWell said Dr. Bob - let's here it for us wussies!
I know you're being serious, but I appreciate your sense of humor nonetheless. I apologize if I'm contributing [at least not negatively?] to the issue.
Posted by boB on April 13, 2000, at 18:03:49
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing posts, posted by michael on April 12, 2000, at 23:37:48
At least LostboyinNC considers himself part of a group (what WE are all fighting for), and perhaps recognizes he has a problem, if he includes himself in the group of mentally ill whose rights need to be protected.
I wonder if he has reviewed a written family lineage that would tell him whether, anytime in the last 2000 years, his own family sprung some semetic roots. I would suggest he might have grow up in a situation where he was repeatedly traumatized and taught that strength is the equivilant of violence and rage. It can be very difficult to find a more intelligent direction when your best role models were out of control much of the time, and pretended their own frustrated acts of abuse were instead mature parenting.
I am just guessing, but most people I know who practice verbal violence learned it somewhere.
Insults aside, he does use some reasonably complex sentence structure, and has the courage to challenge what he sees as weakness in the people around him. Maybe he will learn someday how to lend strength to his social circle instead of tearing them down. The anti-semitism is simply ill-informed lashing out, but some of his argument that people need to do something physical, and that some supposedly mental illnesses are just a bit too much self-absorbed complaining, well, he is not the only one who feels that way. I suspect he is suffering inside.
I suggest he try spending some time with flowers - not picking, but down on his hands and kneee, touching the cool earth that he is made of and inhaling the subtle aroma of blossoms on the stem, contemplating how they blossom and yearn for life, and how they interact with bees and other species to maintain themselves, often sacrificing their own breif life to keep their own kind strong. These are the ways of nature, and if we don't practice them wisely, they can easily spin out of control.
Well there is an alternative. He could just boil over with rage, and we could all ignore him and treat him like a pariah, never caring what caused his lashing out and his anger. For an idea of where that leads, check this out:
http://www.amyboyer.org/
http://www.amyboyer.org/mind.htm
Posted by claudea on April 13, 2000, at 18:24:35
In reply to Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing article, posted by Abby on April 12, 2000, at 0:31:35
Ok, here is my weird thought for the day----
When I was admitted to Evanston Hospital in the state of Illinois, I was told by the admitting personnel that they hoped that I "never wanted to buy a gun, because you won't be able to now." Well now every once in awhile I get to thinking about that and wonder what if I decided to buy a gun. Isn't limiting my ability to purchase one infringing on several rights I have? After all I am not a convicted criminal. And what about Doctor-patient confidentiality--do the gun dealers know why I can't buy one? Or what about my rights to bear arms or better yet, my rights for equal access under the ADA? I've often wondered if I tried to buy a gun would the ACLU or NRA take up my fight after having been turned down.
Yes---my it drives my pdoc and therapist crazy when I bring the thought of suing for my right to bear arms. Hmmmm....maybe we could get a class action lawsuit. :)
Claudea
Posted by Brenda on April 13, 2000, at 18:25:08
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing posts, posted by boB on April 13, 2000, at 18:03:49
> At least LostboyinNC considers himself part of a group (what WE are all fighting for), and perhaps recognizes he has a problem, if he includes himself in the group of mentally ill whose rights need to be protected.
>
> I wonder if he has reviewed a written family lineage that would tell him whether, anytime in the last 2000 years, his own family sprung some semetic roots. I would suggest he might have grow up in a situation where he was repeatedly traumatized and taught that strength is the equivilant of violence and rage. It can be very difficult to find a more intelligent direction when your best role models were out of control much of the time, and pretended their own frustrated acts of abuse were instead mature parenting.
>
> I am just guessing, but most people I know who practice verbal violence learned it somewhere.
>
> Insults aside, he does use some reasonably complex sentence structure, and has the courage to challenge what he sees as weakness in the people around him. Maybe he will learn someday how to lend strength to his social circle instead of tearing them down. The anti-semitism is simply ill-informed lashing out, but some of his argument that people need to do something physical, and that some supposedly mental illnesses are just a bit too much self-absorbed complaining, well, he is not the only one who feels that way. I suspect he is suffering inside.
>
> I suggest he try spending some time with flowers - not picking, but down on his hands and kneee, touching the cool earth that he is made of and inhaling the subtle aroma of blossoms on the stem, contemplating how they blossom and yearn for life, and how they interact with bees and other species to maintain themselves, often sacrificing their own breif life to keep their own kind strong. These are the ways of nature, and if we don't practice them wisely, they can easily spin out of control.
>
> Well there is an alternative. He could just boil over with rage, and we could all ignore him and treat him like a pariah, never caring what caused his lashing out and his anger. For an idea of where that leads, check this out:
> http://www.amyboyer.org/
> http://www.amyboyer.org/mind.htmThanks for mentioning the flower smelling therapy. I grow roses, lots of roses, and it's the one tried and true thing to lift my depression a bit. I call it "putting my nose in the rose" literally. Digging is also very therapeutic for excercise and getting back to basics. BTW NCboy's name is Eric. Aside from some of his racist comments - he appears to be pretty intelligent.
Also, my husband and I have numerous weapons of all different types and calibers. When I have severe breakthrough depression he locks them all up. Otherwise, we used to shoot for fun - now they just collect dust. Also, when his Schizophrenic (diagnosed) nephew came to stay with us we locked them up at that time. He was very unstable and it made ME feel better, not because he was a danger. I don't know if he was or not. I do know he stopped taking his medication and that caused me some anxiety. I work for a psychiatrist preparing forensic reports and SSI evaluations. Without exception, all of the forensic reports deal with Schizophrenic's who have STOPPED taking their medication. That's when perhaps some gun control to the mentally ill may be useful.
Got off the track of the roses - Thanks. B.
Posted by AprilA. on April 13, 2000, at 19:52:47
In reply to Re: boB - stop and smell the roses, posted by Brenda on April 13, 2000, at 18:25:08
> >
> > Also, my husband and I have numerous weapons of all different types and calibers. When I have severe breakthrough depression he locks them all up. Otherwise, we used to shoot for fun - now they just collect dust. Also, when his Schizophrenic (diagnosed) nephew came to stay with us we locked them up at that time. He was very unstable and it made ME feel better, not because he was a danger. I don't know if he was or not. I do know he stopped taking his medication and that caused me some anxiety. I work for a psychiatrist preparing forensic reports and SSI evaluations. Without exception, all of the forensic reports deal with Schizophrenic's who have STOPPED taking their medication. That's when perhaps some gun control to the mentally ill may be useful.
> Got off the track of the roses - Thanks. B.------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this demonstrates the difficulty of maintaining confidentiality when medical records are concerned. How would you like to have laws preventing people who have previous mood disorders which might impair judgement from working with medical records? I'm not sure I want someone who experiences severe breakthrough depression handling MY medical records! People with severe breakthrough depression are widely known to experience severe lapses in judgement.Did you have a chance to read the series in the NY times referenced previously? It mentioned several killers who were manic-depressive and Severely Depressed as well as Schizophrenic. In addition this article only addressed "spree" killers. Murder/Suicides are usually committed by people who are diagnosed with depression. I'm glad it made you feel more comfortable around your schizophrenic relative to have the guns locked up and who knows-he probably felt more comfortable around you for the same reason:o)
I feel very strongly that it's dangerous to start making special laws for special classes of people based on mental health diagnoses.
I'm with you on the flower therapy though. I've been having intensive sessions with the honeysuckle in my backyard. AprilA.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 13, 2000, at 23:29:13
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing posts, posted by boB on April 13, 2000, at 18:03:49
> Well there is an alternative. He could just boil over with rage, and we could all ignore him and treat him like a pariah, never caring what caused his lashing out and his anger.
It's not that I don't care about him or what causes his behavior, it's that his behavior is too disruptive to be tolerated here.
Bob
Posted by Brenda on April 14, 2000, at 10:23:39
In reply to Re: Rights to privacy, posted by AprilA. on April 13, 2000, at 19:52:47
>
> > >
> > > Also, my husband and I have numerous weapons of all different types and calibers. When I have severe breakthrough depression he locks them all up. Otherwise, we used to shoot for fun - now they just collect dust. Also, when his Schizophrenic (diagnosed) nephew came to stay with us we locked them up at that time. He was very unstable and it made ME feel better, not because he was a danger. I don't know if he was or not. I do know he stopped taking his medication and that caused me some anxiety. I work for a psychiatrist preparing forensic reports and SSI evaluations. Without exception, all of the forensic reports deal with Schizophrenic's who have STOPPED taking their medication. That's when perhaps some gun control to the mentally ill may be useful.
> > Got off the track of the roses - Thanks. B.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> I think this demonstrates the difficulty of maintaining confidentiality when medical records are concerned. How would you like to have laws preventing people who have previous mood disorders which might impair judgement from working with medical records? I'm not sure I want someone who experiences severe breakthrough depression handling MY medical records! People with severe breakthrough depression are widely known to experience severe lapses in judgement.
>
> Did you have a chance to read the series in the NY times referenced previously? It mentioned several killers who were manic-depressive and Severely Depressed as well as Schizophrenic. In addition this article only addressed "spree" killers. Murder/Suicides are usually committed by people who are diagnosed with depression. I'm glad it made you feel more comfortable around your schizophrenic relative to have the guns locked up and who knows-he probably felt more comfortable around you for the same reason:o)
>
> I feel very strongly that it's dangerous to start making special laws for special classes of people based on mental health diagnoses.
>
> I'm with you on the flower therapy though. I've been having intensive sessions with the honeysuckle in my backyard. AprilA.April - I appreciate your thoughts. However, I am a professional person and extremely ethical when it comes to the clients medical records. I have been in therapy and continue to be for many many years. I also see a pdoc for med checks. I am on Zoloft for my depression and have been on Ad's for many years. I know the signs and symptoms of my depression/anxiety and am able to get extra help if things get bad. As far as medical records go - there is a much more signifant worry involved with the insurance companies and HMO's giving out info to employers. I was in HR for a very large company for a long time, those folks had access to ALL your records. The doctor's reports that I prepare are infinitely more confidential than those receiving health/mental care through their employers. BTW - I'm a medical transcriptionist and work at home. All MT's have access to very private records and take the confidentiality issue very seriously. Also, the mentally ill or specifically those who have been hospitalized (at least in Calif) are prohibited from purshasing guns for five years from the time of their hospitalization. That also includes 72-hour holds for suicide attempts. So in a way there already is regulation in that respect.
As for me - I'd rather "stick my nose in my roses." Your honeysuckle sounds glorious. Thanks. B.
Posted by boB on April 14, 2000, at 21:10:31
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing posts, posted by Dr. Bob on April 13, 2000, at 23:29:13
>
> It's not that I don't care about him or what causes his behavior, it's that his behavior is too disruptive to be tolerated here.
>
> BobYou da man, Dr. Bob. Somebody has to take a stand!
Posted by Craig on April 16, 2000, at 2:29:25
In reply to Re: Rights to privacy, posted by Brenda on April 14, 2000, at 10:23:39
BTW - I'm a medical transcriptionist and work at home. All MT's have access to very private records and take the confidentiality issue very seriously.
*******************************************************
I am very interested to know how you are able to work at home transcribing medical reports since that is the kind of job I want to do. I have a degree in medical record technology and am familiar with transcription, but my job was as a health record analyst. Unfortunately, my accreditation has lapsed and I haven't worked in that field since 1988. Besides experience, what are the requirements for transcriptionists these days? Do you work part of the time at the hospital or are you able to work all your hours at home? How realistic are my chances of finding this kind of job so that I can work at home? I would appreciate any advice you might offer.
Posted by GRKMR on April 16, 2000, at 21:13:10
In reply to Re: Guns and the mentally ill: disturbing posts, posted by boB on April 14, 2000, at 21:10:31
>
> >
> > It's not that I don't care about him or what causes his behavior, it's that his behavior is too disruptive to be tolerated here.
> >
> > Bob
>
> You da man, Dr. Bob. Somebody has to take a stand!Some very valid points were made by several people. If the government is allowed to stop you from purchasing a gun(for fear you will hurt yourself or others), where will it stop.....Will they next try to stop you from owning and driving a car(because we know more people are killed in car accidents every day than are killed with a gun), or will we be required to keep all the medications locked in a safe so we don't OD... or better yet lets just lock everyone who is mentally ill up, so no one has to worry. The government needs to stop protecting us from ourselves and get back to worring about the country.
Posted by boB on April 16, 2000, at 21:48:36
In reply to To Brenda, the medical transcriptionist, posted by Craig on April 16, 2000, at 2:29:25
> BTW - I'm a medical transcriptionist and work at home. All MT's have access to very private records and take the confidentiality issue very seriously.
> *******************************************************
> I am very interested to know how you are able to work at home transcribing medical reports since that is the kind of job I want to do. I have a degree in medical record technology and am familiar with transcription, but my job was as a health record analyst. Unfortunately, my accreditation has lapsed and I haven't worked in that field since 1988. Besides experience, what are the requirements for transcriptionists these days? Do you work part of the time at the hospital or are you able to work all your hours at home? How realistic are my chances of finding this kind of job so that I can work at home? I would appreciate any advice you might offer.I just want to interject a warning here. There is a bit of a scam going around where these publishing houses run ads in help wanted sections recruiting work-at-home medical transcriptionists. People who reply are sold a book, supposedly explaining how to get started in the high-paid field of medical transcription. What the firms fail to explain before they take anywhere from $40 to $150 for their book is that the person has to sell their own services to physicians or other clients. According to attorney's general press releases, these companies seldom have clients available that are looking for medical transcriptionists.
Posted by Jennifer D. on April 17, 2000, at 6:00:57
In reply to To Brenda, the medical transcriptionist, posted by Craig on April 16, 2000, at 2:29:25
>
Brenda- I was trained at my local community college for medical transcription along with Medical Terminology With Anatomy. I might add I made straight "A's"...and received the Dean's Award for Outstanding Academic Achievement. I bought a new computer, dictaphone, and $$$ worth of medical dictionaries, spellers, drug books, etc. I've been transcribing now for over five years. I have had quite a few medical offices using my "at home" transcription service, but to be quite honest, they are far and few in-between. It isn't because they are not satisfied with my work...it is because they want the work done in their office. I have to pound the pavement from dusk to dawn, 6 days a week and hope for a couple days worth of work to do at home every month!!! (This is so frustrating). I am lucky if I do get a couple of days. So, Brenda, unless you sign on with one of the big companies (like Total E-Med) who hire homeworkers to do medical transcription, you're better off going to work in a doctor's office rather than doing it at home.
Posted by Brenda on April 17, 2000, at 13:19:04
In reply to Re: To Brenda, the medical transcriptionist, posted by Jennifer D. on April 17, 2000, at 6:00:57
> >
>
> Brenda- I was trained at my local community college for medical transcription along with Medical Terminology With Anatomy. I might add I made straight "A's"...and received the Dean's Award for Outstanding Academic Achievement. I bought a new computer, dictaphone, and $$$ worth of medical dictionaries, spellers, drug books, etc. I've been transcribing now for over five years. I have had quite a few medical offices using my "at home" transcription service, but to be quite honest, they are far and few in-between. It isn't because they are not satisfied with my work...it is because they want the work done in their office. I have to pound the pavement from dusk to dawn, 6 days a week and hope for a couple days worth of work to do at home every month!!! (This is so frustrating). I am lucky if I do get a couple of days. So, Brenda, unless you sign on with one of the big companies (like Total E-Med) who hire homeworkers to do medical transcription, you're better off going to work in a doctor's office rather than doing it at home.Craig, et.al, re MT work at home. I stumbled into the profession. I had been working in HR in a large company, as a result I had good computer skills. I left that company (HR sucks!) about three years ago. I wanted to work at home so I created my own brochures, bus. cards, ltrhead, etc., purchased transcription equip., fax, medical spellcheck software (very important) got a small bus. license and sent out hundreds of brochures. It took about $5000 to start. I at first targeted the legal field because I knew more about that. Then I got a call from a surgeons office to transcribe referral letters. I jumped at the work. Problem was I knew NOTHING about medical anything. I quickly found a class on medical terminology. That did the trick. The first Dr.'s office I worked for was very patient and helpful with my mistakes. I lucked out there. I also purchased the Dr.'s Little Blue Book. Names and addresses of all the doctors in my area. I sent out brochures and letters to every single one of them. Slowly my business grew. I charge 12 cents a line and I've had to turn work away. I pick up tapes at the Dr.'s offices and then 48 hrs. later I deliver the documents. All of my work has come from the brochures I sent out, with the exception of that first surgeon - I was going door to door to every doctors office in my city (San Diego) handing out brochures. I am not a certified MT. Only the big companies care about that. My doctors only care that my work is error free and on-time. Also, if you work for a big company or hospital you make a lot less money. I can make about $25 an hour being an independent. The big companies start you out around 5 or 6 cents a line. Being an independent I only have to work about four hours a day. One thing - I couldn't have done this if my son was still living at home. I needed all the benefits a large company had to offer while my son was growing up. I am able to get health insur. through my husband's company. Or you can insure yourself through Blue Cross or some other HMO. The benefit to sending out thousands of brochures is that the Dr.'s office will save them, and if they lose their transcriptionist they will call you. It's difficult for Dr.'s offices to find independents. That is how I got 99% of my business. I also refer the work I can't take on to the local Junior college MT program. Another thing you can do is join your local chapter of the American Assoc. of MT.They'll send you a list of all the MT members in your area. One of the MT's from the group wanted me to take over her bus. when she retired. I don't know anything about the mail order MT business. For me the best thing was to get my name out in the community. After I sent out the brochures, I followed up four months later with postcards.
Let me know if you'd like me to send you copies of the stuff I created for ideas. If you do, I'll enclose my e-mail address then - and you can send me your address.
I'll help however I can. Thanks for asking. B
Posted by Aylse on April 18, 2000, at 12:01:50
In reply to Re: Some answers re MT's at home, posted by Brenda on April 17, 2000, at 13:19:04
I also do MT at home, but would much prefer doing it at the office. Then you sort of "punch a time clock." I make part-time wages, but when the work is piling up it is hard for me not to do it. So I work full-time plus for part time wages. WAAA. I have no back bone and it makes me really mad that I let myself work more than I get paid for.
This is the end of the thread.
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