![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Diane on April 1, 2000, at 13:30:36
What happened to Vitality Health Products (feral.com)?
Their new location _http://DrTonic.com_ still, after 3 months(?), isn't happening.So what's a body to do?
Half my order didn't make it. The Buprenorphine half. The half I really wanted to try, of
course. They sent me an insurance claim BUT at their new location
_http://DrTonic.com_ they state
"For the time being, Vitality Health Products asks that you not send any
correspondence,
as it can not be dealt with and may not be received."
Question I:
Is there a _simular_ on-line pharmacy that anyone knows of? One that offers drugs
without prescription.If any one wants to get rid of/sell their unwanted drug stocks Or sell a *sample kit
(couple of each) let me know (I react quickly to drugs so just a few would do. Example:
I reacted UNfavorably to 20mg Prozac within 9hrs). I'm willing to try anything once or
twice. I'm open.
E-mail rudrunty@centurytel.netI'm specifically looking to buy/TRY these drugs without prescription:
*Cytomel (liothyronine) = T3
*Synthroid ( levothyroxine sodium) = T4
*Buprenorphine (Temgesic) =mixed opiate agonist/antagonist shown to have
antidepressant properties.*Tramadol (Ultram) = mild Serotonin/norepinephrine action and binds (weakly) with
mu-opioid receptors.*Bupropion (Wellbutrin SR) = antidepressant that has no direct actions on serotonin
system. Bupropion SR works by increasing
available amounts of norepinephrine and dopamine, two
other brain chemicals implicated in the reward and pleasure pathways.*Amoxapine (Asendin) = for reactive depressive disorders/endogenous/psychotic
depression.Depression accompanied by anxiety or agitation.*Deprenyl (selegiline)= After following Adams experience I'd like to give it a go.
*Reboxetine (Edronax®) = NARI = norepinephrine, might be particularly useful in
restoring motivation, activity and social function early in the recovery phase.*Tianeptine (Stablon) = a serotonin reuptake accelerator; i.e., it works exactly opposite
of Prozac. Tianeptine takes as much Serotonin as possible out of circulation.
The therapeutic profile appears to be neither stimulating nor
sedative.*Adrafinil (Olmifon)= Alertness Without Stimulation, The standard dose is 2 to 4
300-mg tablets per day.*Tomoxetine hydrochloride= is a selective nonadrenergic uptake inhibitor for
treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). As a non-stimulant
pharmaceutical intervention, tomoxetine could provide a novel mechanism for treating
ADHD.*Metformin (Glucophage®)= lowers blood sugar levels. Maintaining lower blood
sugar levels significantly reduces the risk of developing microvascular (small blood
vessel) complications. Microvascular complications include retinopathy (eye
disease), nephropathy (kidney disease), and neuropathy (nerve disease). Metformin
has beneficial effects on blood lipids (triglycerides and cholesterol), body weight and
PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome).*Sibutramine (Meridia)= appetite suppressant
*Protriptyline=tricy
Posted by Chris A. on April 1, 2000, at 22:09:14
In reply to Vitality Health Products (feral.com) , posted by Diane on April 1, 2000, at 13:30:36
Diane,
I don't know what country you are writing from, but buprenorphine is a controlled substance in the United States. BTW, I tried it on the advice of a top pDoc and it didn't work.
I wouldn't want to try any of these meds without the assistance of competent professionals who can be detached observers. I am too emotionally involved with myself to always make wise choices in playing with my neurochemistry. The balance is delicate and it is risky to make mistakes.
Chris A.
Posted by Too many drugs! on April 2, 2000, at 1:22:31
In reply to Vitality Health Products (feral.com) , posted by Diane on April 1, 2000, at 13:30:36
All this self-medicating sounds crazy to me. You need to find out what your problem is and THEN choose a drug that has been succesful for that condition. You sound like you just want to try everything.
>
> I'm specifically looking to buy/TRY these drugs without prescription:
>
> *Cytomel (liothyronine) = T3
> *Synthroid ( levothyroxine sodium) = T4
> *Buprenorphine (Temgesic) =mixed opiate agonist/antagonist shown to have
> antidepressant properties.
>
> *Tramadol (Ultram) = mild Serotonin/norepinephrine action and binds (weakly) with
> mu-opioid receptors.
>
> *Bupropion (Wellbutrin SR) = antidepressant that has no direct actions on serotonin
> system. Bupropion SR works by increasing
> available amounts of norepinephrine and dopamine, two
> other brain chemicals implicated in the reward and pleasure pathways.
>
> *Amoxapine (Asendin) = for reactive depressive disorders/endogenous/psychotic
> depression.Depression accompanied by anxiety or agitation.
>
> *Deprenyl (selegiline)= After following Adams experience I'd like to give it a go.
>
> *Reboxetine (Edronax®) = NARI = norepinephrine, might be particularly useful in
> restoring motivation, activity and social function early in the recovery phase.
>
> *Tianeptine (Stablon) = a serotonin reuptake accelerator; i.e., it works exactly opposite
> of Prozac. Tianeptine takes as much Serotonin as possible out of circulation.
> The therapeutic profile appears to be neither stimulating nor
> sedative.
>
> *Adrafinil (Olmifon)= Alertness Without Stimulation, The standard dose is 2 to 4
> 300-mg tablets per day.
>
> *Tomoxetine hydrochloride= is a selective nonadrenergic uptake inhibitor for
> treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). As a non-stimulant
> pharmaceutical intervention, tomoxetine could provide a novel mechanism for treating
> ADHD.
>
> *Metformin (Glucophage®)= lowers blood sugar levels. Maintaining lower blood
> sugar levels significantly reduces the risk of developing microvascular (small blood
> vessel) complications. Microvascular complications include retinopathy (eye
> disease), nephropathy (kidney disease), and neuropathy (nerve disease). Metformin
> has beneficial effects on blood lipids (triglycerides and cholesterol), body weight and
> PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome).
>
> *Sibutramine (Meridia)= appetite suppressant
>
> *Protriptyline=tricy
Posted by JohnL on April 2, 2000, at 4:28:26
In reply to Vitality Health Products (feral.com) , posted by Diane on April 1, 2000, at 13:30:36
Even though it's usually a bad idea, I have to admit I can emphathize with your self medication tendencies. I'm equally guilty of doing the same thing at times. I don't endorse it or recommend it. Yet out of frustration with naive pdocs I've found myself self-experimenting several times. I do so cautiously though, always researching fully to understand side effects, risks, dangers, interactions, etc. And I always dip my toes in the water so to speak, with very low doses at first, before diving in. I have found that the techniques of quite a few pdocs are no better than flipping a coin or throwing darts. I can do that just as well. But the important factor is the safety factor. Must always understand completely everything possible about the med before actually putting it in my mouth.
Even though a selection of meds is available mailorder, the selection is limited. Most overseas pharmacies do require a prescription. Some will accept it faxed while some demand the original hard copy in the mail. The ones that do not require a prescription can only supply a limited number of meds, like the nootropics, Prozac, Reboxetine, and Zoloft. There are several sites that can supply things like Viagra, Meridia, Xenical. Meridia is probably similar to Effexor except with more anorexic action. You pay a fee for a written online consultation, and then the fee for the med itself. Prices are usually considerably higher than what you would pay at your local pharmacy.
The limiting factor in which of the many drugs you want to look at is probably availability. You might have to whittle your list down to just Deprenyl, Meridia and Adrafinil, which aren't as hard to get. But again, the safety factor. Deprenyl has the potential to kill you or cause a stroke if the wrong foods are eaten while taking it. It isn't definite, but it is a risk to be aware of and respect. Adrafinil requires periodic blood testing to check liver function. Meridia I think is relatively free of any major risks, unless combining it with another antidepressant. Any one of these might get you feeling well so that all the others can be scratched off the list anyway. The only real way to try everything you want is to have someone write prescriptions for you. In the absence of doing that, your selections will be limited. So if you insist on continuing with self-medication, concentrate your efforts on the meds you can get easily. Without a prescription, forget the rest. They're out of reach without your doctor's endorsement.
And a final word of buprenorphine. Though it appears you got stiffed for the money spent, you might not be missing out on much. I saw a bar graph compiled by a psychiatrist that showed what types of drugs got his patients well in a sample of 250 patients during a year. The most common cure was a serotonin antidepressant. Smaller yet still significant numbers of patients were improved with antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, NE antidepressants, or thyroid. The smallest percentage of all was with the opioids like buprenorphine. Only a few people out of 250 actually improved with it.
Posted by FP on April 2, 2000, at 23:27:49
In reply to Vitality Health Products (feral.com) , posted by Diane on April 1, 2000, at 13:30:36
My experience with the company you mention is that my order was seized by US customs! What is the underlying problem you are trying to treat - maybe some of us have been there. You mention number of drugs that interact with opoid receptors - am I in the ballpark?
FP
Posted by Diane on April 6, 2000, at 15:58:44
In reply to Re: Vitality Health Products (feral.com) , posted by FP on April 2, 2000, at 23:27:49
Posted by Too many drugs!
>All this self-medicating sounds crazy to me. You need to find out what your problem is
>and THEN choose a drug that has been successful for that condition. You sound like
>you just want to try everything.Until I find something that works or I give up, Yes.
Posted by JohnL
>So if you insist on continuing with self-medication, concentrate your efforts on the
>meds you can get easily. Without a prescription, forget the rest. They're out of reach
>without your doctor's endorsement.Thank you JohnL
Posted by FP
>My experience with the company you mention is that my order was seized by US
customs!
SAME HERE. buprenorphine>You mention a number of drugs that interact with opoid receptors - am I in the
>ballpark?YES YOU ARE
>What is the underlying problem you are trying to treat - maybe some of us have been
>there.I first posted my symptoms on this board October 19, 1999, at 15:28:26.
Here it is again FP: ....."If you can put aside your initial reaction, and keep your mind open, I'd like some
input/help on a problem that frustrates me.
Question: Can some body please tell me why methadone(wait!,don't tune me out
yet!) WAKES me up, alleviates my depression (like having a type A mind in a type B body),
where as stimulants make me tired, depressed, irritable, unfocused, zombie/zoned out and
hinders my breathing.A little back ground:
I have been "depressed" sense age 11, or at least that's when suddenly:
Had no interest in school, friends, play etc. Emotions started to flatline.
Could not concentrate, retain or focus.
I became a lonely loner, etc. etc. on down the line.
I have always felt doubt, fear, insecure, worthless, hopeless, incapable, gutless
unmotivated. Always lacked drive, ambition, assertiveness.
Lacked what ever IT is to succeed and be normal. Lots of guilt. Lots of shame.
I have always felt undeserving, ashamed of myself. Inferior to all others. Helpless.NO MANIA HERE. Except for recently acquired anger. Strictly
unipolar.ChronicI have always been this way, UNTIL METHADONE! Then boom! I was
ALIVE.
I had ambition! I had the "I can do it attitude"
For the first time in my life I wasn't depressed and all the above.
For the first time in my life I got a job. A career. I became a union floor covering
installer. Local 1235 outta San Francisco. One of 2 women in the trade! I was
finally rolling at age 31!
And nobody ever knew I was on Methadone.
Methadone is a slow release, long acting (26hr) drug. There is no "rush", as with
heroin. In my experience it's a simple, uncomplicated, risk free drug.
So it's addictive, so what? I'd rather be addicted and enabled than depressed anddisabled. I mean we are never really talking "Cure" when it comes to depression
but a
easing of symptoms, right?Then unfortunately I had to give up methadone. I now live a 100 mile drive
from the nearest clinic. I live in Sweet Home, OR. and I am stuck here. I don't
have a car (my 57 belair wagon was stolen a month after my husbands death)and
there are no busses. *I do have a computer tho and I do have a GP. But as soon as
I told my GP about my experience with Methadone he tuned me out. Doctors look
on former heroin addicts/ methadone clients as untrustworthy animals. Like we're
gonna destroy them and their practice as soon as their backs are turned.
Doctors, nurses and counselors at Methadone Clinics are some of the ugliest most
arrogant people I've ever known. They look down at you and treat you like stinking
dog shit. They get off on punishment. I had a counselor who was pissed off because I
was doing so well. "What am I going to do with you Diane? I have to do something
with you" So she punished me by making me go to NA meetings 3 night a week. The
closest one was over the hill 20 miles away at 8pm.SO I am searching for alternatives. Alternatives similar to methadone or
alternative ways to *acquire methadone outside of the clinic setting*.
(fat chance, I know but I figured I might as well ask sense I'm going this far out
on a limb, risking being ostracized :o)). And I am not talking Heroin abuse here. I've
been
clean sense 1985. Been off methadone sense 1992(not by choice). (christ, I don't
even consume sugar, caffeine, salt, tap water etc. I eat fresh vegetables and alittle chix
and fish. I take Nutra Mega super potency supplements with antioxidants blahblah
blah! I eat lots of Flaxseed for it's Omega-3 and fiber. Oatbran...I AM CLEAN,
CLEAN, CLEAN) But does that make any points with my GP? NOoooooo.Methadone is the only thing that has worked(so far) for my depression. Just my luck,
the one thing that works bang on...I can't get simply thru normal channels.So I am back to "all the above" depression.
Diane "
------------- end Oct 16 postMy personal assessment of myself:
Chronic Unipolar/Major depression, Social Phobia, ADD, no hyperactivityNo drive or motivation. I'm out of my room maybe 3 hours out of 24. I wear silicone
earplugs 24 hours a day to block out the real world so I won't die of depression
knowing I will never be apart of that world. Been suicidal (in thought only) many times.I've only been to one pdoc and that was back in 1981. I was at the end of my
rope and he was the closest one around. He put me on Mellaril, then
something else I don't remember, then Xanax. The Mellaril and Xanax made me
dopy and Zombie like.My experience with certain drugs:
*Zoloft™ gave me headaches at 100mg. Nothing at 50mg.
*Prozac™ made me violent (20mg). Scared the hell outta me! 10mg excruciating
headache
*Xanax made me dopey, useless. Hospitalized with withdrawal seizures. Word-finding
difficulties ever after.
*Mellaril, Zombie.
*Klonopin made me dopey, useless.
*Vallium, nothing.
*Tryptophan,the amino acid, gives me nightmares.(tryptophan increases
serotonin synthesis)
*Alcohol, one drink and I've got a headache.
*Pot made me depressed and self-conscious in the extreme! Can't breathe.
*Cocaine is too euphoric. The crash is unbelievably depressing. Can't breathe.
*Speed usually brings out the hate, anger & depression. It also makes me tired, easily
winded. And what might take me 1hr to do normally will take me 24 on speed.
*Demerol®, nothing.
*Codeine, no big deal. Killer on the stomach
*Vicodin, feels simular to methadone/heroin for a very little while. Kills the stomach
*Morphine is too dopey. A little too much and you're out like a light. Risky
*Heroin is much better but it's an occupation. The returns are no longer worth the
effort.
**Methadone is perfect. Long acting. It stabilizes. There is no head in chest rush or
crash. It's a constant even flow. The only drug that has worked.
!Methadone stimulates my body and my mind! "Type A mind in a type B body"
Darkness turns to light.
I'm not going to elaborate because I'd fill up many pages easily.Diane
Posted by FP on April 7, 2000, at 1:07:54
In reply to Reply to: FP, JohnL and Too many drugs!, posted by Diane on April 6, 2000, at 15:58:44
Diane:
Sorry I made you repeat your original post; I've been on here about a week, and didn't think of searching the archives. But I COMPLETELY understand how you feel about Methadone.
I took opium for years, and whenever I tried to quit, by tapering down, or cold turkey - the depression was absolutely crushing. Even after I had been clean for a long time, I remember saying that my depression was like terminal cancer; it was going to kill me and there was no cure for it. I had always been a depressive - opium was the first thing that made me feel human. But after about 5 years it just plain stopped working - or would work for half an hour or so, tops.
Now, the only thing that works for me is Immodium. I have been told that chemically, it is similar to Methadone, and it seems plausible ... it's like a low intensity, yet steady version of the opium high, and lasts for about a day and a half.
If you do try it, you need A LOT of Immodium - I tell the clerk at the drug store the whole family is going to Mexico, if I get a funny look. My normal dose is 18-24 pills every morning; it was as high as 48-64, (I weigh about 220 lbs) but I've never been able to go below 18 for more than a couple of days without the depression, chills, and lethergy coming back.
I apologize if you already knew this stuff. If you do, (or you try it and it doesn't work), there is more potentially useful info at www.lycaeum.org
I wish you the best.
FP
Posted by CarolAnn on April 7, 2000, at 8:03:17
In reply to Re: Reply to: FP, JohnL and Too many drugs!, posted by FP on April 7, 2000, at 1:07:54
Hi FP, I've been interested in this thread, and especially your most recent post. I'm curious about the Immodium thing, why would it be similar to methodone, when it works on a physical part of the body? Also, (delicate question), don't you get *really* constipated taking that much? I hope you don't mind my asking. I appreciate the information. Thank you! CarolAnn
Posted by AndrewB on April 7, 2000, at 12:22:54
In reply to Re: a couple questions for FP..., posted by CarolAnn on April 7, 2000, at 8:03:17
Diane,I am the one who told you you could order buprenorphine from Vitality. I'm sorry if it didn't get through. As you know, Vitality has been shut down by Thai authorities. If your buprenorphine was siezed by customs you should have received a notice from them. If you did not receive a notice it is more likely that your medicine was 'lifted' by a postal employee.
There is another non prescription source of buprenorphine, please email at andrewb@seanet.com for this information.
I researched a little on the web and one site suggested that a mood stabilizer may help you even though you are unipolar. The information is old and maybe off base but never the less I think you'll find the site interesting, see below.
-------------------------------------
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/heroin/methadone/selfmed.htmAnnals New York Academy of Sciences, 1982. V.398 pp 44-53
METHADONE AND OPIATE DRUGS: PSYCHOTROPIC EFFECT AND
SELF-MEDICATIONGerald J. McKenna
In 1977 and 1978 Gold et al.22, 23 reported on the dopamine-blocking action of methadone as evidenced by the increase in serum prolactin following administration of methadone. They point out that neuroleptic agents such as haloperidol inhibit the enzyme dopamine-stimulated adenylate cyclase. Methadone and other opioid drugs apparently do the same. They postulate that for this reason "opiate agonists may be antipsychotic in man." Kleber and Gold in 1978 documented well the various uses of psychotropic drugs in the treatment of narcotics addicts on methadone maintenance. The administered lithium carbonate to a group of patients on methadone maintenance with a history of recurrent depression but no history of manic or hypomanic episodes. The allowed the patients to decrease their methadone dose while on the lithium trial and found that the methadone dose decreased significantly (p<0.01) during the trial. They provide support for the hypothesis that methadone is antipsychotic and antimanic and suggest an endorphin hypothesis for the mechanism of action of lithium. They also document the use of neuroleptics in schizophrenic patients maintained on methadone as a result of their opiate dependence. The state, "With the recent developments in opiate receptor and peptide identification reexamined clinical data suggest that opiate receptor activity and opiates may be psychotomimetic and antipsychotic respectively." The antipsychotic properties of methadone are hypothesized on the basis of opiate agonist receptor activity, i.e., interference with the postsynaptic action of dopamine, the mechanisms espoused for the antipsychotic actions of traditional neuroleptic drugs.
----------------------
Posted by KarenB on April 7, 2000, at 14:57:53
In reply to Re: Diane, posted by AndrewB on April 7, 2000, at 12:22:54
Diane,
In reading the acticle thanks to AndrewB, re: psychotropic effect of methadone, it occured to me that sulpiride may be worth a trial for you, especially if used along with a low to moderate dose of stimulant, like Adderall or Ritalin. This is essentially the combination I used in the Philippines that worked so well for me, only I was using amineptine as the stimulant with its truly wonderful mood brightening qualities. Don't get excited, amineptine was discontinued for reasons I cannot fathom. The only side effect of the Dogmatil (sulpiride) was complete cessation of menstrual periods (hey, that's no side effect, that's a blessing!) and slight (5-10 lbs) weight gain, which CAN be kept at bay with exercise. The nice part is you actually feel like moving!
Good luck.
K
Posted by Brandon on April 8, 2000, at 10:24:26
In reply to Re: a couple questions for FP..., posted by CarolAnn on April 7, 2000, at 8:03:17
I cant seem to find any international sources for amisulpiride that will ship w/o a script. Anyone know of any? Also what are the differences between sulpiride and amisulpiride? Do they both act on the same receptors? Same dose related effects? Thanks in advance.
Brandon
Posted by KarenB on April 8, 2000, at 11:40:18
In reply to Re: Overseas sources, posted by Brandon on April 8, 2000, at 10:24:26
Brandon,
Michael was nice enough to send this info to me a couple of weeks ago:
Oh yeah, also found sulpiride at an Italian pharmacy:
50mg # 30 tablet/box at price of 3.5 usd/box
They said shipping is $7 - $10. They also have amisulpride:
50mg # 12 tablets/box dosage, its price is 13 usd/box
They too, are very quick and helpful via e-mail.
xxxGood luck! BTW, I don't know about amisulpiride but I was on sulipiride for almost two years, taking it with a psychostimulant (amineptine). This combo was very effective for apathetic, nooooo energy type depression. Amineptine has been discontinued - some evil conspiricy, I'm sure.
Karen
Posted by Brandon on April 8, 2000, at 12:06:19
In reply to Re: Overseas sources, posted by KarenB on April 8, 2000, at 11:40:18
Karen,
Thanks!! Exactly what I was looking for. Are you still taking the sulpiride, and does it help even w/o the amineptine?
Brandon
Posted by KarenB on April 8, 2000, at 12:39:51
In reply to Re: Overseas sources, posted by Brandon on April 8, 2000, at 12:06:19
Brandon,
No, I am not taking it right now. It's kind of a long story but I have, I think, been sort of diagnosed as ADD with depression (no hyperactivity), rather than Bipolar II. To get to this conclusion, though, I have been through three months of antidepressants that didn't work, lithium that made me sick and a pdoc who I have summarily FIRED, this week.
The ADD diagnoses makes sense of my history of the SSRIs and all other antidepressants not working and the amineptine doing the job (a psychostimulant). It also make sense of my childhood and a whole lot of other things but that's another story.
If I were going to take the sulipiride, I would do it with a low dose of stimulant but that's because of my symptoms. On the insert it says it works for social inhibition (I can attest to that) and "physical symptoms of an organic illness." My doc in the Philippines said it would help with the "heaviness" and apathy I feel along with the mental part of the depression. It worked and I would highly recommend it. There is slight (5-10 lbs on me) weight gain but I was able to keep that under control with exercise alone. I felt so good, that was no problem. I was hiking up mountains with my husband in 100 degree heat! I was superwoman.
Where's that address again...I'm gonna order some more of that stuff.
Oh, I took two to three "Dogmatil" (brand name) per day. Not sure of the mg.
K
Posted by michael on April 8, 2000, at 14:44:55
In reply to Re: Overseas sources, posted by KarenB on April 8, 2000, at 11:40:18
> Brandon,
>
> Michael was nice enough to send this info to me a couple of weeks ago:
>
> Oh yeah, also found sulpiride at an Italian pharmacy:
>
> 50mg # 30 tablet/box at price of 3.5 usd/box
>
> They said shipping is $7 - $10. They also have amisulpride:
>
> 50mg # 12 tablets/box dosage, its price is 13 usd/box
>
> They too, are very quick and helpful via e-mail.
>
> xxx
>
> Good luck! BTW, I don't know about amisulpiride but I was on sulipiride for almost two years, taking it with a psychostimulant (amineptine). This combo was very effective for apathetic, nooooo energy type depression. Amineptine has been discontinued - some evil conspiricy, I'm sure.
>
> Karen
Unfortunately, the pharmacist tacked on this post-script to our last correspondence:"PS: In Italy on-line pharmacies are under a sever control so I must ask you to send me, for the next times some prescription."
Haven't found any other prescription-free sources for amisulpride (not for lack of looking...)
But there are some for sulpride xxx is one...
As for comparison, I got this from some french doctors I asked...
Amisulpride (SOLIAN*) and Sulpiride (DOGMATIL*) are chemically and pharmacologically related. Both are antipsychotic benzamide derivatives that counteract deficit symptoms at low dosages and productive symptoms at higher dosages.
Sulpiride is also effective against vomiting, vertigo and ulcer. Amisulpride, which is only used in psychiatric diseases, seems to block almost selectively D2 and D3 receptors of limbic system without acting on HN, 5-HT, muscarinic and alfa1 receptors.
At low dosages, between 50 and 300 mg per day orally, amisulpride should induce less extra-pyramidal effects than haloperidol.
Amisulpride or sulpiride administration may induce the same side-effects, but they are less frequently reported for amisulpride.
Both drugs are poorly metabolized and mainly excreted unchanged in urine.
If you (or anyone) comes across a script-free source of amisulpride, please drop me a line at xxx. Good Luck.(Karen - don't suppose they still had any amineptine in stock at the other place? Just wondering.)
Posted by Karen on April 9, 2000, at 16:33:30
In reply to Re: Overseas sources, posted by michael on April 8, 2000, at 14:44:55
Michael,
Just e-mailed the India source yesterday - I'll let you know about the amineptine. I'm not getting my hopes up because if they do have it, it will probably be the last of their stock.
K
Posted by AndrewB on April 10, 2000, at 16:56:48
In reply to Re: Michael, posted by Karen on April 9, 2000, at 16:33:30
Karen and Michael,
India may still be manufacturing amineptine. Maybe you can find that out Karen when you communicate with the Indian pharmacy.
Though more expensive, everyone should know that there are at least 2 non prescription sources of amisulpride.
I also have emailed a Philippines pharmacy and have inquired whether they have amisulpride.
AndrewB
Posted by KarenB on April 10, 2000, at 18:08:14
In reply to Re:amisulpride and amineptine, posted by AndrewB on April 10, 2000, at 16:56:48
Just got e-mail back from the pharmacy in India, so here it is:
Survector is available and it costs US $4.5 per strip which include 10
tablets, please mention the quantity you want. We charge US $35 as shipping
charges. You must have a prescription with you so that any problem in your
country you can handle it.You can pay us through Western union money order or personal check favouring
xxx
***************************************************************************************************************************************
I may add that for ADD with HYPOactivity/depression, it is the only thing that has ever worked for me. Kills two birds with one stone.Good luck, everyone.
Karen
Posted by Drongo on July 28, 2003, at 4:06:55
In reply to Reply to: FP, JohnL and Too many drugs!, posted by Diane on April 6, 2000, at 15:58:44
> Posted by Too many drugs!
> >All this self-medicating sounds crazy to me. You need to find out what your problem is
> >and THEN choose a drug that has been successful for that condition. You sound like
> >you just want to try everything.
>
> Until I find something that works or I give up, Yes.
>
> Posted by JohnL
> >So if you insist on continuing with self-medication, concentrate your efforts on the
> >meds you can get easily. Without a prescription, forget the rest. They're out of reach
> >without your doctor's endorsement.
>
> Thank you JohnL
>
> Posted by FP
> >My experience with the company you mention is that my order was seized by US
> customs!
> SAME HERE. buprenorphine
>
> >You mention a number of drugs that interact with opoid receptors - am I in the
> >ballpark?
>
> YES YOU ARE
>
> >What is the underlying problem you are trying to treat - maybe some of us have been
> >there.
>
> I first posted my symptoms on this board October 19, 1999, at 15:28:26.
> Here it is again FP: .....
>
> "If you can put aside your initial reaction, and keep your mind open, I'd like some
> input/help on a problem that frustrates me.
> Question: Can some body please tell me why methadone(wait!,don't tune me out
> yet!) WAKES me up, alleviates my depression (like having a type A mind in a type B body),
> where as stimulants make me tired, depressed, irritable, unfocused, zombie/zoned out and
> hinders my breathing.
>
> A little back ground:
> I have been "depressed" sense age 11, or at least that's when suddenly:
> Had no interest in school, friends, play etc. Emotions started to flatline.
> Could not concentrate, retain or focus.
> I became a lonely loner, etc. etc. on down the line.
> I have always felt doubt, fear, insecure, worthless, hopeless, incapable, gutless
> unmotivated. Always lacked drive, ambition, assertiveness.
> Lacked what ever IT is to succeed and be normal. Lots of guilt. Lots of shame.
> I have always felt undeserving, ashamed of myself. Inferior to all others. Helpless.
>
> NO MANIA HERE. Except for recently acquired anger. Strictly
> unipolar.Chronic
>
> I have always been this way, UNTIL METHADONE! Then boom! I was
> ALIVE.
> I had ambition! I had the "I can do it attitude"
> For the first time in my life I wasn't depressed and all the above.
> For the first time in my life I got a job. A career. I became a union floor covering
> installer. Local 1235 outta San Francisco. One of 2 women in the trade! I was
> finally rolling at age 31!
> And nobody ever knew I was on Methadone.
> Methadone is a slow release, long acting (26hr) drug. There is no "rush", as with
> heroin. In my experience it's a simple, uncomplicated, risk free drug.
> So it's addictive, so what? I'd rather be addicted and enabled than depressed and
>
> disabled. I mean we are never really talking "Cure" when it comes to depression
> but a
> easing of symptoms, right?
>
> Then unfortunately I had to give up methadone. I now live a 100 mile drive
> from the nearest clinic. I live in Sweet Home, OR. and I am stuck here. I don't
> have a car (my 57 belair wagon was stolen a month after my husbands death)and
> there are no busses. *I do have a computer tho and I do have a GP. But as soon as
> I told my GP about my experience with Methadone he tuned me out. Doctors look
> on former heroin addicts/ methadone clients as untrustworthy animals. Like we're
> gonna destroy them and their practice as soon as their backs are turned.
> Doctors, nurses and counselors at Methadone Clinics are some of the ugliest most
> arrogant people I've ever known. They look down at you and treat you like stinking
> dog shit. They get off on punishment. I had a counselor who was pissed off because I
> was doing so well. "What am I going to do with you Diane? I have to do something
> with you" So she punished me by making me go to NA meetings 3 night a week. The
> closest one was over the hill 20 miles away at 8pm.
>
> SO I am searching for alternatives. Alternatives similar to methadone or
> alternative ways to *acquire methadone outside of the clinic setting*.
> (fat chance, I know but I figured I might as well ask sense I'm going this far out
> on a limb, risking being ostracized :o)). And I am not talking Heroin abuse here. I've
> been
> clean sense 1985. Been off methadone sense 1992(not by choice). (christ, I don't
> even consume sugar, caffeine, salt, tap water etc. I eat fresh vegetables and alittle chix
> and fish. I take Nutra Mega super potency supplements with antioxidants blahblah
> blah! I eat lots of Flaxseed for it's Omega-3 and fiber. Oatbran...I AM CLEAN,
> CLEAN, CLEAN) But does that make any points with my GP? NOoooooo.
>
> Methadone is the only thing that has worked(so far) for my depression. Just my luck,
> the one thing that works bang on...I can't get simply thru normal channels.
>
> So I am back to "all the above" depression.
>
> Diane "
> ------------- end Oct 16 post
>
> My personal assessment of myself:
> Chronic Unipolar/Major depression, Social Phobia, ADD, no hyperactivity
>
> No drive or motivation. I'm out of my room maybe 3 hours out of 24. I wear silicone
> earplugs 24 hours a day to block out the real world so I won't die of depression
> knowing I will never be apart of that world. Been suicidal (in thought only) many times.
>
> I've only been to one pdoc and that was back in 1981. I was at the end of my
> rope and he was the closest one around. He put me on Mellaril, then
> something else I don't remember, then Xanax. The Mellaril and Xanax made me
> dopy and Zombie like.
>
> My experience with certain drugs:
> *Zoloft™ gave me headaches at 100mg. Nothing at 50mg.
> *Prozac™ made me violent (20mg). Scared the hell outta me! 10mg excruciating
> headache
> *Xanax made me dopey, useless. Hospitalized with withdrawal seizures. Word-finding
> difficulties ever after.
> *Mellaril, Zombie.
> *Klonopin made me dopey, useless.
> *Vallium, nothing.
> *Tryptophan,the amino acid, gives me nightmares.(tryptophan increases
> serotonin synthesis)
> *Alcohol, one drink and I've got a headache.
> *Pot made me depressed and self-conscious in the extreme! Can't breathe.
> *Cocaine is too euphoric. The crash is unbelievably depressing. Can't breathe.
> *Speed usually brings out the hate, anger & depression. It also makes me tired, easily
> winded. And what might take me 1hr to do normally will take me 24 on speed.
> *Demerol®, nothing.
> *Codeine, no big deal. Killer on the stomach
> *Vicodin, feels simular to methadone/heroin for a very little while. Kills the stomach
> *Morphine is too dopey. A little too much and you're out like a light. Risky
> *Heroin is much better but it's an occupation. The returns are no longer worth the
> effort.
> **Methadone is perfect. Long acting. It stabilizes. There is no head in chest rush or
> crash. It's a constant even flow. The only drug that has worked.
> !Methadone stimulates my body and my mind! "Type A mind in a type B body"
> Darkness turns to light.
> I'm not going to elaborate because I'd fill up many pages easily.
>
> Diane
>
>
>
My opinion is you are never going to get all that delivered, as your get banned rx delivered, if it makes it past the govt (which is hit or miss) still maybe 35% will actually make it to your door. Try two at a time, order wise.
As for Opiates as relief for depression, this is a well known and excellent method of relieving depression, goes way back. See the web site http://www.biopsychiatry.com/opivar.htm they have extensive info on this. the US Govt has made in nearly impossible for dr.s to rx powerful enough Opiates for depression, catagorizing them in classes which require extensive and expensive rx slips (triplicates the dr has to pay more and get more shit for being able to use them) and copies go to the Feds of each one, they database it, and hence, with medicine 'progressing' and dr's being more and more reluctant to rx a strong opiate, its become almost impossible to use that source for depression. But I get 90 Methadone a month and it works great 2x it helps my back pain and makes me feel less depressed. I suggest you stick with the methadone, just get a doc that will rx it for you - I see mine 1x a year and get 4 months of rx 3x a year by stopping in the office - pre-dated so I cant turn them all in and so on.
If you can BELIEVE this, I recently became VERY depressed, and its well known that a SSRI can be augmented with a dopaminergitic, like, Ritalin.
Did I get the SSRI, in 2 mins of talking to a doc (not my usual, just made an appt came in 2 days later, heres your SSRI, sir. Did I get 2 weeks worth of Ritalin (COMMONLY rxd to kids) NO WAY! He refused to augment, even when I told him its also medically approved to start with the dopamine aggressor for 2-4 weeks as it makes you feel better 30 mins after taking it, while you have to suffer with depression for up to 6 weeks before the SSRI kicks in. He didnt care, no way could I get any of the drugs in the same class as Ritalin. I am pissed.
Minaprine was legal and working great till 1999 when it was yanked for the minor rare possible side effect of renal failure I think (and it was also something that made people actually FEEL GOOD and the govt seems to hate that idea) despite its incredible sucess rate. Cant get Adrafinil in the US either now, I understand.Why sucessful dopamine antaganizors are banned and lithium still procsribed for minor depression my some drs I cannot understand. Im ready to FLY to India to get Modafinil...
Drongo, pissed about the state of depression treatment, horrified by the idea of it 50 years ago...
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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