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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kelly on March 6, 2000, at 5:20:56
In reply to Re: Atypical depression, posted by Linda on March 5, 2000, at 22:43:45
Thanks so much to everyone that responded to my questions. There is a wealth of information to be gained from this board- no. I think before I try anything like ect, I will continue giving the meds a try until I run out of options. Thanks again!!!
Kelly
Posted by dove on March 6, 2000, at 8:33:34
In reply to Atypical depression, posted by kelly on March 3, 2000, at 11:45:59
I am taking Serzone in combination with Amitriptyline and Adderall. The indications that led my p-doc to prescribe Serzone were/are continuing depression and anxiety.
My depression holds two different forms, every week, almost cyclic. One form that is the norm for Friday through Monday (weekend cycle), is comprised with having no appetite and aggravated and sad energy, lots of anger and tears. Serzone definitely helps with this, mellows me out and enables me to see reality, rather than whatever the heck I'm seeing when I'm all wound up.
The other cycle is comprised of lack of energy, lots of tears, eating a ton of chocolate, apathetic outlook on life. Serzone helps with some of these symptoms, it improves my sleep so much it's incredible. Where I needed to sit around apathetic I now have a little oomph! in my day. Serzone doesn't cause me to feel foggy at all, but everyone reacts in their own unique ways.
I have responded in a very negative manner to the SSRI's, but have responded fairly well to TCAs and Serzone (which is slightly different than the usual SSRI?) The SSRIs that I've tried made me feel like I was wrapped in wool, couldn't really express myself, couldn't feel joy, or anything more than hopelessness. I don't feel that way in any way with the Serzone.
Hope this helps,
dove
Posted by Kelly on March 6, 2000, at 15:16:20
In reply to Re: Atypical depression, posted by dove on March 6, 2000, at 8:33:34
Thanks dove,
That sounds kinda like my experience with the ssri's. I could not express myself either, and it was much more difficult to form even a simple sentence. When I could speak, it was so slow and monotone that it embarrassed me. Thanks a lot. I will definately be giving the Serzone a try.
Have a wonderful day.
Posted by AndrewB on March 6, 2000, at 17:41:04
In reply to Re: Atypical depression, posted by Kelly on March 6, 2000, at 15:16:20
To Kelly and Janet R,
Janet, you asked what is atypical depression. You might find it interesting that the definition for atypical and dysthymia overlap somewhat. Signs of atypical include increased appetite, weight gain, and excessive sleep and, for some, a leaden sensation in the legs and arms. Compare this to the signs of dysthymia which include overeating (or poor appetite), sleeping too much (or too little), low energy or fatigue, low self-esteem, poor concentration and feelings of hopelessness. The most important sign of dysthymia is that the low mood is always there- it is chronic low-grade depression.
When I’m not medicated I show all the signs of dysthymia including eating a lot (though I don’t gain much weight), sleeping more and feeling sleepy, and feeling fatigued, especially for a few days after heavy exercise.
Serzone was the first AD I took. I took it for about six months. While on it I felt confused and foggy headed much of the time and my memory suffered. I would have a hard time waking up in the morning and getting my thoughts together.. I also had that wrapped in wool feeling. But worst of all, Serzone gave me no improvement in mood.
Anyway Serzone wasn’t for me. I figured it was the serotonin that was causing these symptoms in me because I had read stories of others having similar experiences with SSRIs. That’s why I never have tried any other serotonin activating meds.
But there are other avenues for treating depression out there. Wellbutrin is the number one alternative to SSRIs in the US. I read up on it some and I still don’t have a clue as to the nature of its pharmacological action. It can be energizing though and has helped a lot of people. It didn’t help me though. Yes I found it energizing but it didn’t do anything for my mood and the side effects were intolerable.Another option to SSRIs are drugs that increase the activity of the other two neurotransmitters involved in mood, norepinephrine and dopamine. Both neurotransmitters are also involved in energy and motivation. For example, my experience has been if you take a drug that decreases dopamine you’ll feel tired and sleepy but if you increase dopamine you’ll receive the opposite effect.
There are a lot of ADs out there that act on dopamine and norepinephrine. But if you eliminate drugs that increase serotonin activity because you respond poorly to serotonin (scratch Effexor and MAOIs), and if you eliminate drugs that have side effects that make you sleepy because you’re already tired and sleepy (tricyclics)........you end up with much more limited choices. For norepinephrine activation you can go with a tricyclic that is less sedating or with reboxetine. Reboxetine, unlike the tricyclics, acts almost exclusively on norepinephrine and thus tends to be better tolerated. It does have side effects for some however, notably; difficulty urinating, erectile dysfunction, and increased heart rate. Some of the side effects go away, some don’t. For me, once I adjusted to the reboxetine, the side effects were minor and its effect on my mood, motivation, energy, and social functioning has been quite nice. But unfortunately reboxetine is not available in the US. If you want it you need to order it from the UK (no prescription required) and it will cost about $2/day.
For dopamine activation your choices include seligiline, stimulants (John L says stimulants act on both dopamine and NE.), amineptine (no longer available), amisulpride and various dopamine agonists such as Mirapex. Seligiline, by the way, is an MAO-B (blocks the breakdown of dopamine) at low doses and at high doses is an MAO-I with a preference for MAO-B activity. Seligiline, stimulants, and amineptine act to increase activity at all dopamine receptors and people in general find these med.s to be energizing but be forewarned Kelly, most people with anxiety problems tend to not fare well on them. That was my personal experience with amineptine, it increased my (social) anxiety. Amisulpride acts only on the D2-D3 dopamine receptors, those involved with mood, and has been shown to reduce anxiety rather than increase it. I’ve personally found it to be both energizing and anxiolytic, a wonderful combination. I’ve also found it to be very good for mood, concentration, and the ability to experience pleasure. Amisulpride is well studied has been shown to be generally effective for depression and dysthymia. Most people will experience no side effects with Amisulpride. It takes effect quickly, acting in days instead of weeks. Amisulpride is available in Europe and South America but for those of us in the US it must be ordered from overseas with a prescription at a cost of about 75 cents a day. For more on amisulpride email me at andrewb@seanet.com and I will send you an information piece.
Janet, I encourage you to try a dopaminergic drug before you say that you’ve tried everything. Seligiline was tested for people with CFS with positive results. You also must be aware that because you have CFS you may need to start your ADs at doses much smaller than normal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXCERPT FROM THE INTERNET:
Several additional empiric therapies have been tried for CFS. Because well-designed clinical trials have demonstrated the benefit of low doses of tricyclic antidepressant drugs in fibromyalgia, tricyclics such as amitriptyline, desipramine, doxepin, and nortriptyline are widely prescribed for CFS patients. Anecdotal experience with tricyclics and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) generally has been positive. Besides targeting depression, some antidepressants appear to act by improving the quality of sleep and/or decreasing pain. However, CFS patients often report that antidepressants given in full, therapeutic doses exacerbate their fatigue. It may be necessary to escalate doses very slowly and urge patience in detecting benefit, or to try the more activating antidepressants such as desipramine, SSRIs such as fluoxetine and sertraline, or monamine oxidase inhibitors. Many CFS patients are extremely sensitive to these drugs, and it is common practice to start a patient at one-tenth to one-quarter of the usual clinical dose.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Janet, do you ever get dizzy upon standing or when working in the sun? Have you ever fainted? These are signs of neural mediated hypotension. I thought you may be interested in the following except from the net:
Recently, a strong link between CFS and neurally mediated hypotension was reported. The study found that 22 of 23 CFS patients tested positive for neurally mediated hypotension by specialized tilt-table testing and pharmacologic provocation. Of those who tested positive, 16 reported full or partial recovery from fatigue after uncontrolled treatment with fludrocortisone, beta-adrenergic blocking agents, and disopyramide, alone or in combination. A randomized, placebo-controlled study is under way to attempt to validate these preliminary results.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Best wishes for your health,
AndrewB
Posted by Elizabeth on March 6, 2000, at 22:04:22
In reply to Re: Atypical depression, posted by Cam W. on March 3, 2000, at 19:43:27
> Kelly - I'm not sure if Serzone would be a good choice. Traditionally, the MAOIs or ECT are the only things that have touched atypical depression. I think some studies have tried Zyprexa or Risperdal as alone or as adjuncts. Sorry, don't know what the outcome was. - Cam W.
I tried to post this before, but it didn't go through for some reason....
ECT is not indicated for atypical depression. It works best in "typical" depressions (psychotic ones in particular).
Antipsychotics haven't been tested for atypical depression. Wellbutrin might be something to consider; Serzone is worth trying too. So is Effexor, although it's likelier than the others to have the same effect on you as the SSRIs.
You might consider the possibility of SAD or bipolar II, as well.
Posted by Karen on March 9, 2000, at 0:08:35
In reply to Re: Atypical depression and ECT to CamW, posted by JanetR on March 5, 2000, at 16:39:43
Janet,
Your brand of depression sounds just like mine.
When I was in the Philippines, I took a combination of Survector (Amineptine) and Dogmatil (Sulpiride) and it really helped. See if you can get it there and just follow the recommended dosage per the insert. Good luck!
Karen
Posted by Noa on March 9, 2000, at 10:06:49
In reply to Re: Janet R - fatigue/depression, posted by Karen on March 9, 2000, at 0:08:35
How does your thyroid check out?
Posted by AndrewB on March 9, 2000, at 14:31:47
In reply to Re: Janet R - fatigue/depression, posted by Karen on March 9, 2000, at 0:08:35
Karen,
Thanks for telling us of this combination, I remember of a previous poster from India who was helped by this same combination. He was an atypical bipolar I think.
Both amineptine and sulpiride act only on dopamine. It is very interesting how dopamine deficiencies, particularly at the D2 receptors, can be involved with fatigue states. It is clear that dopamine active drugs can relieve these fatigue states (They can also relieve depression but that is a different story). For an in depth description of fatigue states such as those associated with CFS, how the D2 receptor is involved, and why dopamine active med.s can bring relief go to www.prys,net/articles/bruno/runninghead.html
Amineptine is a dopamine reuptake blocker. I am fairly certain that it is no longer available in France or elsewhere. The plants that produced it in Mexico and France have ceased production. Sulpiride is a selective D2 presynaptic receptor antagonist. I don’t think it is available in the US but may be ordered with a prescription from Europe and elsewhere. A good substitute for sulpiride is amisulpride, a limbic system selective presynaptic receptor antagonist. It may be ordered from overseas with a prescription. Amisulpiride has been much more thoroughly studied for treating major depression and dysthymia. There is one recent study however that indicates sulpiride is effective for mild to moderate depression.
Karen you are probably trying to find substitute for this combination of amineptine and sulpiride that was so effective for you. You might try seligiline as a substitute for amineptine. At dose of 15mg or less per day it is an MAO-B, blocking the breakdown of dopamine. At higher doses, up to 60mg/day it is an MAO-I with an MAO-B preference. You can also try wellbutrin and stimulants but with these you will get significant norepinephrine action mixed in with the dopamine action, which may or may not be to your liking.I currently take amisulpride. It prevents fatigue and lifts my mood. By the way, I recently ‘re-energized’ it by taking a 4 day holiday from it. Occasional drug holidays may be necessary with certain dopaminergic drugs to maintain optimal effectiveness. I have also just started taking Mirapex (pramipexole) with it with truly wonderful results. Mirapex is a D2-D3 receptor agonist that acts on the striatum and substantia nigra. Mirapex is available in the US. Those of you outside of the US may have similar agonists available such as roxindole. Mirapex has been shown effective in treating depression in two or three studies.
Best wishes for your health,
AndrewB
Posted by Karen on March 9, 2000, at 16:04:48
In reply to Re: Karen, Janet R - fatigue/depression, posted by AndrewB on March 9, 2000, at 14:31:47
Dear Andrew,
Thanks for your input - very informative!
Where are you getting Amisulpride and for how much? Is delivery reliable? Do you think that this one drug could possibly replace the amineptine and sulpiride combo I was on?
Is Seligiline an MAO? Does this mean the special diet?
I was wondering, if Amisulpride is working well for you, why did you recently add Mirapex? What is the advantage of this?
I have been diagnosed as Bipolar II but from what I have read, my symptoms are atypical, like the guy from India who was on the same meds I mentioned. Funny that up until last year, I was living in a third world country, self medicating and doing a better job at staying well than I am now, with professional help here in the States. Hope I can get it right soon. Living has not been easy lately.
Thank you for all your help. Best to you...
Karen
Posted by AndrewB on March 10, 2000, at 1:30:18
In reply to Re: AndrewB - meds, posted by Karen on March 9, 2000, at 16:04:48
> Dear Karen,
>
>
> Where are you getting Amisulpride and for how much? Is delivery reliable? Do you think that this one drug could possibly replace the amineptine and sulpiride combo I was on?
>
I'm getting the amisulpride from Victoria Apotheke which I refer to in the info piece I sent you. The price is about 75 cents a day for a 50mg. dose. More is not necessarily better. Too much and you might start to antagonize the postsynaptic receptor, the opposite effect of what is wanted. Delivery is reliable. If you are able to get it from the Phillipines please let me know. I don't know if this one drug will replace what you had before. I'm more like a CFS/dysthymic, different from you. When I took amineptine I WAS bothered by side effects. You may have to combine amisulpride with another med or two. If amisulpride doesn’t do it alone maybe try combining it with seligiline or wellbutrin for starters.> Is Seligiline an MAO? Does this mean the special diet?
If you take over 15mgs/day of seligiline observe the MAOI dietary restrictions.
>
> I was wondering, if Amisulpride is working well for you, why did you recently add Mirapex? What is the advantage of this?
>
I ordered Mirapex because amisulpride had partially pooped out. But the 4 day drug holiday reinvigorated my amisulpride. I am taking the Mirapex anyway to see if I can get further benefit (more D2 activation). By the way I also take reboxetine for norepinephrine.> I have been diagnosed as Bipolar II but from what I have read, my symptoms are atypical, like the guy from India who was on the same meds I mentioned. Funny that up until last year, I was living in a third world country, self medicating and doing a better job at staying well than I am now, with professional help here in the States. Hope I can get it right soon. Living has not been easy lately.
>
Strangely in some ways it can be more difficult getting dopamine ADs in the US due to medicine availability and doctors attitudes. Anyway make sure when choosing a psych. to ask first if he would be willing to prescribe the med.s I've listed and if he would be willing to prescribe an overseas med.
Best wishes,AndrewB
Posted by michael on March 10, 2000, at 17:54:15
In reply to Re: Karen, Janet R - fatigue/depression, posted by AndrewB on March 9, 2000, at 14:31:47
> Karen,
>
> Thanks for telling us of this combination, I remember of a previous poster from India who was helped by this same combination. He was an atypical bipolar I think.
>
> Both amineptine and sulpiride act only on dopamine. It is very interesting how dopamine deficiencies, particularly at the D2 receptors, can be involved with fatigue states. It is clear that dopamine active drugs can relieve these fatigue states (They can also relieve depression but that is a different story). For an in depth description of fatigue states such as those associated with CFS, how the D2 receptor is involved, and why dopamine active med.s can bring relief go to www.prys,net/articles/bruno/runninghead.html
>
> Amineptine is a dopamine reuptake blocker. I am fairly certain that it is no longer available in France or elsewhere. The plants that produced it in Mexico and France have ceased production. Sulpiride is a selective D2 presynaptic receptor antagonist. I don’t think it is available in the US but may be ordered with a prescription from Europe and elsewhere. A good substitute for sulpiride is amisulpride, a limbic system selective presynaptic receptor antagonist. It may be ordered from overseas with a prescription. Amisulpiride has been much more thoroughly studied for treating major depression and dysthymia. There is one recent study however that indicates sulpiride is effective for mild to moderate depression.
> Karen you are probably trying to find substitute for this combination of amineptine and sulpiride that was so effective for you. You might try seligiline as a substitute for amineptine. At dose of 15mg or less per day it is an MAO-B, blocking the breakdown of dopamine. At higher doses, up to 60mg/day it is an MAO-I with an MAO-B preference. You can also try wellbutrin and stimulants but with these you will get significant norepinephrine action mixed in with the dopamine action, which may or may not be to your liking.
>
> I currently take amisulpride. It prevents fatigue and lifts my mood. By the way, I recently ‘re-energized’ it by taking a 4 day holiday from it. Occasional drug holidays may be necessary with certain dopaminergic drugs to maintain optimal effectiveness. I have also just started taking Mirapex (pramipexole) with it with truly wonderful results. Mirapex is a D2-D3 receptor agonist that acts on the striatum and substantia nigra. Mirapex is available in the US. Those of you outside of the US may have similar agonists available such as roxindole. Mirapex has been shown effective in treating depression in two or three studies.
>
> Best wishes for your health,
>
> AndrewB
I was just wondering if you had any insights/info regarding amantadine, as an augmenter. I've seen it mentioned in the past with respect to helping to overcome some of the sexual side effects.The reason I'm asking is that I believe it too affects dopamine, and that when it is broken down by the body, a couple of the by-products that result are stimulant-like, giving it a small energizing effect. Just wondering.
Posted by AndrewB on March 11, 2000, at 14:51:34
In reply to Re: Q for Andrew - fatigue/depression, posted by michael on March 10, 2000, at 17:54:34
>
>
> I was just wondering if you had any insights/info regarding amantadine, as an augmenter. I've seen it mentioned in the past with respect to helping to overcome some of the sexual side effects.
>
> The reason I'm asking is that I believe it too affects dopamine, and that when it is broken down by the body, a couple of the by-products that result are stimulant-like, giving it a small energizing effect. Just wondering.
Michael,Amantadine does have dopamine properties (prevents reuptake at the D1 & D2 receptors). It also has serotonergic and noradrenergic activity as well as being an anti-viral and having other activity. It has been speculated to have some antidepressant activity (because it helps with depression associated with borna virus?). Does anyone know of anyone using it for this purpose. It is used by MS patients to combat their fatigue. It is also used to treat apathy asociated with stroke and frontal lobe syndrome. As you said it is used to sounteract SSRI sexual side effects as well as SSRI poop out. Supposedly amantadine has significant side effects so it maybe isn't the the best choice for dealing with D2 receptor based fatigue.
Posted by michael on March 11, 2000, at 17:36:18
In reply to Re: Q for Andrew - Response, posted by AndrewB on March 11, 2000, at 14:51:34
>
> >
> >
> > I was just wondering if you had any insights/info regarding amantadine, as an augmenter. I've seen it mentioned in the past with respect to helping to overcome some of the sexual side effects.
> >
> > The reason I'm asking is that I believe it too affects dopamine, and that when it is broken down by the body, a couple of the by-products that result are stimulant-like, giving it a small energizing effect. Just wondering.
>
>
> Michael,
>
> Amantadine does have dopamine properties (prevents reuptake at the D1 & D2 receptors). It also has serotonergic and noradrenergic activity as well as being an anti-viral and having other activity. It has been speculated to have some antidepressant activity (because it helps with depression associated with borna virus?). Does anyone know of anyone using it for this purpose. It is used by MS patients to combat their fatigue. It is also used to treat apathy asociated with stroke and frontal lobe syndrome. As you said it is used to sounteract SSRI sexual side effects as well as SSRI poop out. Supposedly amantadine has significant side effects so it maybe isn't the the best choice for dealing with D2 receptor based fatigue.*****
Andrew-
Thanks for the reply. By the way, when I referred to the stimulant-like by products of amantadine break down - I was confusing it with Selegline (I got that from the tips section: "it autometabolizes in small amounts to amphetamine and methamphetamine"). Sorry about that one.I don't think I've ever seen anyone here who has actually used amantadine. Rather, I've just seen it either referred to in various literature, or suggested as a possible augmentor (for the sexual side effects) by doc's who have used it successfully w/their patients (from the tips section again).
Posted by Janice on March 12, 2000, at 14:25:44
In reply to Re: Karen - meds, posted by AndrewB on March 10, 2000, at 1:30:18
hi AndrewB,
I am very curious as to what you were doing to manage your symptoms in the third world country.
"Funny that up until last year, I was living in a third world country, self medicating and doing a better job at staying well than I am now, with
professional help here in the States."I feel like a crow who has found a shiny object!
That is, of course, if you have the time and inclination to share that with us.
Thanks, Janice.
Posted by AndrewB on March 12, 2000, at 16:40:22
In reply to Re: AndrewB, posted by Janice on March 12, 2000, at 14:25:44
> hi AndrewB,
>
> I am very curious as to what you were doing to manage your symptoms in the third world country.
>
> "Funny that up until last year, I was living in a third world country, self medicating and doing a better job at staying well than I am now, with
> professional help here in the States."Janice,
It was Karen who said she used to live in a third world country (the Philippines).
Posted by Janice on March 12, 2000, at 22:13:07
In reply to Re: You mean Karen, posted by AndrewB on March 12, 2000, at 16:40:22
Hi Karen,
> >
I am very curious as to what you were doing to manage your symptoms in the third world country.
> >
"Funny that up until last year, I was living in a third world country, self medicating and doing a better job at staying well than I am now, with
professional help here in the States."
>
I'm not certain if you are still on the board, or feel like sharing this with us, but if you do I would appreciate it.Janice
Posted by KarenB on March 13, 2000, at 0:42:40
In reply to Re: Hi Karen (thanks AndrewB), posted by Janice on March 12, 2000, at 22:13:07
Dear Janice,
Hi there!
I lived in the Philippines for five years, and just returned to the States in '99. For over 10 years I had been treated for depression in the States, by various doctors and always with SSRIs, which never worked for me and only added to my frustration. I could not figure out what was wrong with me and was getting very little help. Like, "Oh, that SSRI didn't work? Well, try this one..."
While in the Philippines, I met a very young, just out of med school doctora (female doctor) - a family practitioner, not a psychiatrist. My young children had various illnesses and through my visits to her clinic I got to know her quite well. When I brought up my depression, she suggested that there may be more going on than a unipolar disorder, as she had witnessed a little of my hypomania on occasion and being bipolar herself, knew what she was seeing. She suggested a list of medications I may try and so I did. I worked out my own dosages, based on the inserts and found great success. You see, in the Philippines, everything I wanted to try was available over the counter.
The combo I finally discovered was Survector (amineptine), a modified tricyclic antidepressant which has been since discontinued by the manufacturer - and Dogmatil (sulpiride), a neuroleptic with antidepressant qualities. Both are Dopamine reuptake blockers but I think they work on different receptors. Nothing has ever lifted me, both mind and body, like those two did. And, I may add, NO SIDE EFFECTS! Except, the Dogmatil caused very slight weight gain and no menstrual periods while taking it. I don't mind that side effect at all.
I am still getting the Dogmatil sent to me and am searching other contacts in the islands to buy up leftover stock of the Survector while I can.
I am finding it difficult to find a replacement for these meds here in the US but AndrewB had some suggestions on which I intend to follow up.
Oh, by the way, I am atypical Bipolar II. My depressions are a dark and ugly place combined with unbelievable fatigue. That is where I go without the right meds. After tasting normality for a season, I just don't want to go back there again, you know what I mean? I also have a two year old and almost five year old - both high energy boys. They are a big inspiration to me in staying well. They deserve a whole mommy.
Let me know if you have any other questions, OK?
Karen
Posted by Janice on March 13, 2000, at 23:59:41
In reply to Janice - Medicating in the Philippines, posted by KarenB on March 13, 2000, at 0:42:40
Dear Karen,
How lucky you were to meet this med school doctora and that she was astute enough to recognize your bipolar disorder (& you had the insight to believe her).
Funny that you mention that these medications lifted both your mind and body--I have always noticed this difference also. Some medications lift my body, some my mind...none, both yet.
The best of luck getting these medications you want, or a replacement for them. You sound very proactive. I wish I had been as proactive as I am now, a few years ago because these disorders do steal your life away from you.
Thanks for sharing your story Karen, I find your story inspirational. Janice
Posted by michael on March 21, 2000, at 14:07:53
In reply to Karen- Medicating in the Philippines, posted by Janice on March 13, 2000, at 23:59:41
> Dear Karen,
>
> How lucky you were to meet this med school doctora and that she was astute enough to recognize your bipolar disorder (& you had the insight to believe her).
>
> Funny that you mention that these medications lifted both your mind and body--I have always noticed this difference also. Some medications lift my body, some my mind...none, both yet.
>
> The best of luck getting these medications you want, or a replacement for them. You sound very proactive. I wish I had been as proactive as I am now, a few years ago because these disorders do steal your life away from you.
>
> Thanks for sharing your story Karen, I find your story inspirational. Janice
Karen -Just wondering if you might be able to suggest any sources for sulpiride? Are you still getting it from the Philippines? And is a prescription required? Any luck w/the new meds you were trying?
I'm also curious about the cost (sulpiride) - like you, I doubt it would be covered by insurance. Thanks.
michael
Posted by KarenB on March 21, 2000, at 14:49:39
In reply to Re: Karen- Medicating in the Philippines, posted by michael on March 21, 2000, at 14:07:53
> Karen -
>
> Just wondering if you might be able to suggest any sources for sulpiride? Are you still getting it from the Philippines? And is a prescription required? Any luck w/the new meds you were trying?
>
> I'm also curious about the cost (sulpiride) - like you, I doubt it would be covered by insurance. Thanks.
> michaelMichael,
I had been receiving Sulpiride from my doctora in the Philippines. I would wire the money to her and she in turn would buy the meds and send them to me via DHL shipping. The shipping was $57. for under a kilo weight. The cost was just under 50 cents per capsule and I took two per day, along with the Amineptine.
Ah, the Amineptine... Sigh... If I could still get this combo on a regular basis, I would probably never change. It's so hard to feel good and normal and then to go through this "finding the new meds" routine once again. The weirdness, the depression, the loss of physical energy and well being. However, I know to continue buying up leftover stock of amineptine all over the world is a fool's paradise for me. You know, there will be one very sad day when it's all gone bye-bye and I can't find it anywhere. Then the crash and burn for yours truly...
I am just finishing up my first week on Nortriptyline and I have been depressed the last two days, mentally and physically, thinking bad thoughts about death, etc. I told myself last night that if I was still in the funk when I woke up this morning, I would take one 12.5mg amineptine tablet to jump start my mood & body. I was and I did and it has worked and here I sit at the computer, feeling OK, for now.
I'm feeling a little bit angry today and have a case of "contempt for my illness" going. Ever feel that way? It's like I tell my husband, it ain't easy being me.
If you really want to try the Sulpiride, maybe you could get a script from your own doctor, if they are open to you trying this med as well, and I can ask my doctora if she would be willing to fill the prescription and ship it to you upon receipt of the faxed prescription from your doc? You can e-mail me if you think this is a possibility and I can try to help in any way I can.
Have you considered amisulpiride? There are some interesting points made by AndrewB and I think maybe Scott about this drug within the past week. As someone had suggested, I think it may be a fine solution when paired with a mild stimulant, for "retarded" fatigue-like depression.
I pray wellness for you.
Karen
Posted by Androog on March 12, 2001, at 16:42:58
In reply to Atypical depression ECT-Experiences needed., posted by Cam W. on March 5, 2000, at 21:31:41
I recently underwent 17 sessions of ECT, my last having taken place over three weeks ago.
Not only am I still depressed, I also don't remember the following:
* My wedding or honeymoon which took place in October 2000
* The names of my nephew, neices and neighbors
* The computer programs I use in my line of work
* Moving out of state and into the house my wife and I currently live in
* Completely re-habbing our kitchen - tearing out all the old tile, re-tiling the floor installing new lighting, sink, dishwasher, garbage disposal, cabinets, etc.
* Any of the movies, books, magazines, etc. I've seen or read in the past year or so
* Most of everything from several YEARS back to the present
My psychiatrist says this is a most unusual response to ECT, and I believe him. But one thing is for sure: I would never undergo another session under any circumstances.I don't say this to try to persuade anyone to abandon the idea of having ECT; I post this simply as a warning you won't hear from the professionals.
I realize my response is atypical, but I can't tell you how difficult it is to live with little recollection of the past.
I can't get a job in my profession until I re-learn the programs I work in. I can't even drive anywhere I used to go without a map from my wife.
And, like I said: I'm still depressed.
So think carefully -- you only have one brain and it stores ALL of your memories.
androog
Posted by steve on March 12, 2001, at 18:20:48
In reply to Re: Atypical depression ECT-Experiences needed., posted by Androog on March 12, 2001, at 16:42:58
If you have had such brain damage, how do you even know you got ECT?
< /sarcasm > (This means I believe you but am a damn cynic about any BS emanating from the orifices of the researchers who have yet meet a potential revenue source they didn't exalt and extol!
> I recently underwent 17 sessions of ECT, my last having taken place over three weeks ago.
>
> Not only am I still depressed, I also don't remember the following:
>
> * My wedding or honeymoon which took place in October 2000
>
> * The names of my nephew, neices and neighbors
>
> * The computer programs I use in my line of work
>
> * Moving out of state and into the house my wife and I currently live in
>
> * Completely re-habbing our kitchen - tearing out all the old tile, re-tiling the floor installing new lighting, sink, dishwasher, garbage disposal, cabinets, etc.
>
> * Any of the movies, books, magazines, etc. I've seen or read in the past year or so
>
> * Most of everything from several YEARS back to the present
>
> My psychiatrist says this is a most unusual response to ECT, and I believe him. But one thing is for sure: I would never undergo another session under any circumstances.
>
> I don't say this to try to persuade anyone to abandon the idea of having ECT; I post this simply as a warning you won't hear from the professionals.
>
> I realize my response is atypical, but I can't tell you how difficult it is to live with little recollection of the past.
>
> I can't get a job in my profession until I re-learn the programs I work in. I can't even drive anywhere I used to go without a map from my wife.
>
> And, like I said: I'm still depressed.
>
> So think carefully -- you only have one brain and it stores ALL of your memories.
>
> androog
Posted by steve on March 12, 2001, at 20:28:16
In reply to Re: Atypical depression ECT-Experiences needed., posted by Androog on March 12, 2001, at 16:42:58
On the other hand I know the brother of a guy who got ECTs done while getting his MBA. He didn't have a problem with it, so I guess your mileage may vary.
> I recently underwent 17 sessions of ECT, my last having taken place over three weeks ago.
>
> Not only am I still depressed, I also don't remember the following:
>
> * My wedding or honeymoon which took place in October 2000
>
> * The names of my nephew, neices and neighbors
>
> * The computer programs I use in my line of work
>
> * Moving out of state and into the house my wife and I currently live in
>
> * Completely re-habbing our kitchen - tearing out all the old tile, re-tiling the floor installing new lighting, sink, dishwasher, garbage disposal, cabinets, etc.
>
> * Any of the movies, books, magazines, etc. I've seen or read in the past year or so
>
> * Most of everything from several YEARS back to the present
>
> My psychiatrist says this is a most unusual response to ECT, and I believe him. But one thing is for sure: I would never undergo another session under any circumstances.
>
> I don't say this to try to persuade anyone to abandon the idea of having ECT; I post this simply as a warning you won't hear from the professionals.
>
> I realize my response is atypical, but I can't tell you how difficult it is to live with little recollection of the past.
>
> I can't get a job in my profession until I re-learn the programs I work in. I can't even drive anywhere I used to go without a map from my wife.
>
> And, like I said: I'm still depressed.
>
> So think carefully -- you only have one brain and it stores ALL of your memories.
>
> androog
Posted by quilter on March 13, 2001, at 0:10:58
In reply to Re: Atypical depression ECT-Experiences needed., posted by Androog on March 12, 2001, at 16:42:58
I had similar results from my ECT series in 1984/5. Won't do that again. The cost is too high. Even now I get surprised by some bit of my past that I no longer remember. It is indeed a very frightening situation to be in. It did seem like it was easier to relearn what was missing than it was to acquire the knowledge in the 1st place. I sure hope that prooves true for you too.
Quilter
Posted by kazoo on March 13, 2001, at 2:17:07
In reply to Re: Atypical depression ECT-Experiences needed., posted by Androog on March 12, 2001, at 16:42:58
It's a pity you couldn't forget the fact that you had any depression to begin with! Isn't that a basic tenet of ECT? Isn't that what it's suppose to do? That alone would have made this particular horror worthwhile.
As to why anyone would want to hot-wire their noggin is beyond my scope of understanding. Wouldn't sticking your finger in a light socket fundamentally do the same thing (or is this reserved exclusively for the Angela Davis look)?
kazoo
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