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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by linkadge on January 13, 2005, at 14:10:42
Does anyone have a chart or something that shows the comparitive binding of AP's to the dopamine receptors.
Thanks
Linkadge
Posted by TomG on January 13, 2005, at 16:13:24
In reply to questions on AP's, posted by linkadge on January 13, 2005, at 14:10:42
http://www.fmn.on.ca/files/antipsychotics.ppt
This is a Canadian PowerPoint file that I think has what you are looking for. They are represented by pie charts at the beginning of the presentation. It shows the binding affinities of five different AP's.
Posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2005, at 16:28:56
In reply to Re: questions on AP's, posted by TomG on January 13, 2005, at 16:13:24
Hi Tom :-)
Have you decided what to do antipsychotic-wise?
Ed.
Posted by TomG on January 13, 2005, at 17:09:49
In reply to Re: questions on AP's » TomG, posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2005, at 16:28:56
Ed,
My switch to Abilify didn't go as planned. I got cold feet and my dad got sick and just really didn't feel like going through a med change and all that goes with it.One week before I went to see my pdoc I started getting crippling anxiety and panic. It actually sent me to the emergency room. I actually didn't think it was anxiety and thought it was hypoglycemia instead, because I felt terribly ill.
I have never had anxiety that has made me feel physically ill. They checked my thyroid and blood sugar and all turned out to be OK. They gave me a shot of Ativan and sent me home and the anxiety went away as fast as it had come on. The anxiety was back the next day and my pdoc gave me a script of Ativan over the phone and took me off Geodon.
The panic and anxiety has steadily been going away over the past two weeks. I think I had run my course with Geodon. It had been such a good med for awhile, but started having such adverse effects like the sedation and now the panic. I am now starting to even taper off the Ativan, because this episode I had is over.
I've been off Geodon for over two weeks and my psychosis has not come back like the disorganized thinking, confusion, and intrusive thoughts. However, I am still left terribly unmotivated, non-talkative, and just feeling blah and not enjoying or finding anything interesting about life. I wouldn't say I'm fully depressed yet, but my mood is just anything but bright.
My doctor wants me to stay off all meds for two months and see what happens. I will see him in March and we will decide what to do then. I think he wants to let me regress again, let my symptoms return and then see what happens when we reintroduce Geodon.
I really don't know what happened with Geodon. It worked so well for two months and then kinda pooped out in a way. It sort of lost it's robust antidepressant effect. Raising the dose made me restless and gave me insomnia. I'm not even sure about my near schizophrenic diagnosis anymore. I think I was psychotic and so does my doctor, but I really don't know what to think anymore about the big picture.
I talked to him about using Parnate or other AD with an antipsychotic and he wrote it down for future reference. I've tried Nardil twice with no positive results. I still have options open for other AP's as well. I wrote the drug company Sanofi-Aventis the other day about Solian, because it is supposed to be released in something like 16 new countries.
I talked to the New York office also and they didn't know of any plans to bring it to the U.S. so I doubt its coming here. I am waiting to hear from the British office. We'll see what happens.
Tom
Posted by Tepiaca on January 13, 2005, at 21:44:51
In reply to Re: questions on AP's, posted by TomG on January 13, 2005, at 16:13:24
Posted by TomG on January 13, 2005, at 22:05:29
In reply to Excellent CHART...thanks ! do you have of ADs?? (nm) » TomG, posted by Tepiaca on January 13, 2005, at 21:44:51
Posted by banga on January 14, 2005, at 9:47:58
In reply to Re: questions on AP's » ed_uk, posted by TomG on January 13, 2005, at 17:09:49
Interesting, I had the same thing happen with Geoodon, to a T! Though I used it for anxiety and depression, it was a miracle, esp. for anxiety--for two months. I ended up in bed all day with crippling anxiety. I restarted it two days ago because my anxiety was so bad I couldnt get out of bed and BLIP anxiety is gone today. But I dont want to stay on it...
Posted by ed_uk on January 14, 2005, at 12:52:04
In reply to Re: questions on AP's » ed_uk, posted by TomG on January 13, 2005, at 17:09:49
Hi Tom,
>I got cold feet and my dad got sick and just really didn't feel like going through a med change and all that goes with it.
I'm sorry to hear that. Is your dad any better? How old are you btw?
>One week before I went to see my pdoc I started getting crippling anxiety and panic.
Do you have any idea what caused your anxiety? Did your pdoc think that the anxiety was in some way related to the Geodon? What were you worried about?
>I've tried Nardil twice with no positive results.
What other ADs have you tried? Amisulpride can work as an AD, as can sulpiride!
>I am waiting to hear from the British office. We'll see what happens.
Good luck! You must be able to get amisulpride somehow. I think sulpiride is available in many more countries so perhaps it would be easier to obtain.
All the best,
Ed.PS. Keep us all updated on your progress :-)
Posted by Ritch on January 14, 2005, at 13:11:44
In reply to Re: questions on AP's » TomG, posted by banga on January 14, 2005, at 9:47:58
> Interesting, I had the same thing happen with Geoodon, to a T! Though I used it for anxiety and depression, it was a miracle, esp. for anxiety--for two months. I ended up in bed all day with crippling anxiety. I restarted it two days ago because my anxiety was so bad I couldnt get out of bed and BLIP anxiety is gone today. But I dont want to stay on it...
Hi, you folks have touched on something that I've noticed with my experiences with neuroleptics in the past. I've had spells of panic attacks associated with using two different ones. I used to take low dose Thorazine (25mg) a long time ago (not for anxiety but for anger) and after I was on it for several weeks I started getting panic attacks (the first time I ever had panic), and I was placed on Ativan and went off the Thorazine and it setttled down. A few years ago I was on Seroquel 25mg bedtime and also after several weeks I started developing panic attacks, went on clonazepam off the Seroquel and it settled down again. I wonder if there is any data (anybody?) about contraindication of use of antipsychotics in patients with panic disorder? I know they can lower seizure threshold by reducing GABA in the brain somehow (from what I remember). I just thought that was interesting that two others had an AP induced anxiety problem that started several weeks after taking it after an *initial* robust anti-anxiety response....
Posted by ed_uk on January 14, 2005, at 13:22:47
In reply to Re: AP's and panic disorder? » banga, posted by Ritch on January 14, 2005, at 13:11:44
Hi,
My experience with Thorazine....
About 2 years ago I had a severe episode of OCD. While I was waiting for citalopram to work my pdoc gave me a prescription for Thorazine because I was desperate for relief.
Effects........
25mg dose... drowsiness, mental slowing, mild dry mouth, no relief of OCD whatsoever.
50 mg dose.... some increased anxiety.
I got desperate and took 150mg (max. daily dose is 1000mg) because my OCD was making me suicidal.....
Result.........
Severe anxiety,
VERY severe akathisia- I was writhing and shouting,
Dystonia of tongue.
Mental confusion,
strong anticholinergic side effects.Went to ER........
Took 60 mg (12 tabs) of Valium to calm me down. At first they wouldn't give me more than 5mg so I has to make a scene and threaten to kill myslelf. I was the worst distress of my life- would not wish it on my worst enemy.
Ed.
Sever
Posted by ed_uk on January 14, 2005, at 13:24:06
In reply to Re: AP's and panic disorder? » banga, posted by Ritch on January 14, 2005, at 13:11:44
Can we keep my dopamine receptors unblocked please??! I like dopamine!
Ed.
Posted by banga on January 14, 2005, at 18:39:20
In reply to Re: I hate Thorazine!! » Ritch, posted by ed_uk on January 14, 2005, at 13:22:47
Well, I guess you won't touch that stuff anymore! OMG that is awful. Glad you made it out of that!
Posted by banga on January 16, 2005, at 15:54:13
In reply to Re: I hate Thorazine!! » ed_uk, posted by banga on January 14, 2005, at 18:39:20
I actually wonder whether it happens in this way:
Initial response can be antianxiety. for Geodon, this would make great sense--it hits 5HT2a big time, more than anything else. I saw pie charts (and silly me I didnt write down the site!)of the APs and how strongly they each act on various sites.
But in another site, I noted that akathisia onset can be in 3 days--or 60 days. So when blood concentrations hit a certain level, akathisia set in--and with the agitation comes awful anxiety.I also read three studies which suggested that people who are suicidal have overly active 5HT2a sites. So why would it be a mystery to scientists if an SSRI can lead to suicidal tinking--but activating 5HT2a? no? Or are there other considerations? Of course three studies doesn't prove it, but surely they aren't to be just dismissed? Ill try to write out the link to one of the 5HT2a studies I had the presence of mind to print out:
http://www.psych.uic.edu/research/serotonin_receptors.htm
Posted by Jeroen on January 20, 2005, at 9:07:04
In reply to Re: anxiety and APs and 5HT2a, posted by banga on January 16, 2005, at 15:54:13
it gave me HARDCORE ANXIETY, HEADACHES FROM HELL, SEDATION FROM HELL, WEIGHT GAIN FROM HELL, AND OH YES BEFORE I FORGOT IT GAVE ME TARDIVE DYSKINESIA, MY EYES ARE MAKING UNCONTROLLED MOVEMENTS,
IM LIKE 5 MONTHS OFF THIS DRUG FROM SATAN
Posted by KaraS on January 20, 2005, at 11:22:48
In reply to GEODON IS VERY BAD!!, posted by Jeroen on January 20, 2005, at 9:07:04
> it gave me HARDCORE ANXIETY, HEADACHES FROM HELL, SEDATION FROM HELL, WEIGHT GAIN FROM HELL, AND OH YES BEFORE I FORGOT IT GAVE ME TARDIVE DYSKINESIA, MY EYES ARE MAKING UNCONTROLLED MOVEMENTS,
>
> IM LIKE 5 MONTHS OFF THIS DRUG FROM SATAN
Do you mind if I ask you what kind of dosage you took? Was it a low or high dose? I think of you when I hear about Geodon. Has your problem with your eyes gotten any better? I hope and pray that it will.
Posted by Jeroen on January 20, 2005, at 11:32:22
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!! » Jeroen, posted by KaraS on January 20, 2005, at 11:22:48
i took GEODON minimal dosage for short period
GEODON 20 MG twice a day for 3 weeks no longer
Posted by Sebastian on January 20, 2005, at 18:56:05
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!!, posted by Jeroen on January 20, 2005, at 11:32:22
Do your eyes still blink? You said you almost forgot to mention that.
Posted by Jeroen on January 20, 2005, at 19:58:07
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!!, posted by Sebastian on January 20, 2005, at 18:56:05
yes they do, they also make uncontrolled movements,
its all on geodon side effects profile it sais UNCONTROLLED EYE MOVEMENTS, what they dont mention it is possible you have it for the rest of your life!
i know for someone this drug is god blessed, but for me its satan drug!
Posted by KaraS on January 20, 2005, at 23:21:58
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!!, posted by Jeroen on January 20, 2005, at 11:32:22
> i took GEODON minimal dosage for short period
>
> GEODON 20 MG twice a day for 3 weeks no longer
>
>That's amazing. I'll definitely stay away from it. Had you taken any other atypicals before?
Posted by Terry on January 21, 2005, at 9:34:07
In reply to GEODON IS VERY BAD!!, posted by Jeroen on January 20, 2005, at 9:07:04
> it gave me HARDCORE ANXIETY, HEADACHES FROM HELL, SEDATION FROM HELL, WEIGHT GAIN FROM HELL, AND OH YES BEFORE I FORGOT IT GAVE ME TARDIVE DYSKINESIA, MY EYES ARE MAKING UNCONTROLLED MOVEMENTS,
>
> IM LIKE 5 MONTHS OFF THIS DRUG FROM SATANI had the same experience with HARDCORE ANXIETY with Geodon. It threw me, from chronic moderate depression, into major depression. It was torture being alive. I also had horrible withdrawals once I went off. I felt like I was in HELL for about six months afterward. For me Geodon was truely THE DRUG FROM SATAN.
Terry
Posted by sdjeff on January 23, 2005, at 0:58:06
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!! Me too! » Jeroen, posted by Terry on January 21, 2005, at 9:34:07
I also had a horrible time with Geodon. Major anxiety and paranoia were the worst. I believe I had a psychotic break. Took months to get over it. I took it for 4 days. Ugh.
Other people do well on it. I sure as sh*t didn't.
Posted by Jeroen on January 23, 2005, at 10:46:50
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!! Me too!, posted by sdjeff on January 23, 2005, at 0:58:06
your lucky you didnt took this longer, like few weeks, might got yourself a nice tardive dyskinesia
this drug is the worst ive ever taken
Posted by ed_uk on January 23, 2005, at 10:58:49
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!! Me too!, posted by Jeroen on January 23, 2005, at 10:46:50
Hi Jeroen,
Have you decided to have Botox?
Ed.
Posted by Jeroen on January 23, 2005, at 11:05:18
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!! » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk on January 23, 2005, at 10:58:49
im going to try medicines first, anti psychotic
the psy doc sais it drastic solution, it will be my last resort if nothing else works.. i will give it a try
Posted by Jeroen on January 23, 2005, at 11:19:45
In reply to Re: GEODON IS VERY BAD!! » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk on January 23, 2005, at 10:58:49
hi, i am taking amantadine 100 mg, after 4 days i feel better really, more energy, happyer
none of those anti psychotics i ever taken even abilify gave me a better feeling... whats going on here?
ive read amatandine has anti depressant effect, well it sure has on me really
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