![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 443 to 467 of 735. Go back in thread:
Posted by AIK on September 28, 2004, at 14:42:21
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by Dave001 on September 28, 2004, at 13:52:48
Forgot to add to Dave's response to me (AIK),that his statement "getting a doctor's "permission" which you won't get" (referring to tapering) is probably 100% correct.
> > You are right. I am wrong. The spheroids are not ph dependent. Would they be time dependent however? (for those of you who are following us, we are referring to the white balls inside the capsule). This has created some interest and
>
> I don't know anything about the specifics of how the extended release preparation was designed. The entire issue becomes obsolete once you're dissolving things.
>
> > experimentation on my part (like I don't have enough to do). Support group, this has nothing to do with ingesting the drug...don't attempt it at this point. In fact, Dave did say earlier that it may be an alternative to tapering with capsules, but doesn't recommend it. I think he has raised the hair on the back of our necks when he minimizes our physical and mental pain. Also using asterisks when he refers to "if the withdrawal effects are *that* bad". Yes, it is *that* bad for these readers or they wouldn't be on this site.
>
> Nothing I said was intended to minimize anyone's pain. I've already said that, but I guess it's not enough. Yes, I used asterisks when I said, "if the withdrawal effects are *that* bad." That just means what it says: if they are *that* bad for *you*. Some people don't find the withdrawal that big of a deal; others have a lot of difficulty. It varies. For someone not having great difficulty tapering the conventional way, it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle to fiddle with the capsules. That's all that was meant. The OP didn't indicate having a problem with tapering; IIRC, she had not yet even begun the process.
>
> > Dave has contributed a good part to this as well. It has raised our awareness that playing around with dosage changes or altering dosage forms, (tablets/capsules in this case) other than what was prescribed for YOU without supervision, is not acceptable. You could wind up being more of
>
> Not acceptable to whom? I assume we are all adults here. I think it is the individual's choice whether to ask their doctor for "permission," which they will not receive, to reduce the dose in the manner described. A compounding pharmacist whom has specifically prepared custom Effexor formulations would likely know more about this than your doctor.
>
> Dave
>
> <snip>
Posted by Bubblehead on September 28, 2004, at 20:51:42
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by Dave001 on September 28, 2004, at 13:52:48
> I think it is the individual's choice whether to ask their doctor for "permission," which
they will not receive, to reduce the dose in the manner described. A compounding
pharmacist whom has specifically prepared custom Effexor formulations would likely
know more about this than your doctor.>
Sorry Dave, but I've got to disagree with ya here. I did not even ask my doctor to do this
(mixing the stuff in water) and guess what? Yep, He told me to. Actually he told me to
just dump out half of the capsule and take it that way. After reading what you all have
said about this; it makes me wonder what kind of ding-dong I was going to. See Dave,
this is what I was trying to express before. These Doctor's are not educated on the meds
and we are the ones paying the price for thier ignorance.
>> experimentation on my part (like I don't have enough to do). Support group, this has
nothing to do with ingesting the drug...don't attempt it at this point. In fact, Dave did say
earlier that it may be an alternative to tapering with capsules, but doesn't recommend it. I
think he has raised the hair on the back of our necks when he minimizes our physical and
mental pain. Also using asterisks when he refers to "if the withdrawal effects are *that*
bad". Yes, it is *that* bad for these readers or they wouldn't be on this site.>Nothing I said was intended to minimize anyone's pain. I've already said that, but I guess
it's not enough. Yes, I used asterisks when I said, "if the withdrawal effects are *that*
bad." That just means what it says: if they are *that* bad for *you*. Some people don't
find the withdrawal that big of a deal; others have a lot of difficulty. It varies. For someone
not having great difficulty tapering the conventional way, it probably wouldn't be worth
the hassle to fiddle with the capsules. That's all that was meant. The OP didn't indicate
having a problem with tapering; IIRC, she had not yet even begun the process.<
Oh my Dave, I think we all have seen the worst in you without even noticing the good. I
think your post about the withdrawl and the need to sue has given you a bad reputation.
Don't be confused, I am still in disagreement with you about this; but from reading your
prior posts I see where you are coming from. Let me see if I have this right. You feel that
by sueing the Drug company we are saying that there will be an end to them finding great
cures and helps for the others that need it in the world. Is that it? If I am right, let me just
say that, that is not our intentions. Have you seen what has been going on lately with the
Effexor? Children and young kids are killing themselves not only from the withdrawl but
some are doing it just from taking the meds. Now I don't know if you have kids, but I do
and I will do anything, I mean "ANYTHING" within my power to protect them. If my
child killed himself from taking this medicine and the company that produces the drug had
knowledge of its effects, I sure as heck am not going to stand by and take a slap on the
cheek. I assume you are trying to, for the drug companies, protect the rights to develop
new things by saying we should not sue. But like you we also are trying to protect. By
sueing we are protecting ourselves, others, and children most of all; from ever having to
suffer like this again. Do you understand what I am saying?Anyhow, I think we all need to agree to disagree and move on. We need to get back to
supporting one another through these hard times. Yes Dave, they really are hard. I
wanted to kill myself last night but couldn't because I have to much resposibilty to others
(sometimes that makes me angry). That responsibility is all that keeps me here somtimes
(especially during this withdrawl process).Kelly
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2004, at 22:20:48
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by AIK on September 28, 2004, at 9:43:01
> I think ... he minimizes our physical and mental pain.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by AIK on September 29, 2004, at 7:48:03
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » Dave001, posted by Bubblehead on September 28, 2004, at 20:51:42
Good Morning Kelly,
The horrible withdrawal you're experiencing seems to have you in a whirl-wind; please call or go see someone who has the ability to pull you through this. Your family needs & wants you, this site needs & wants you, and you need to want you!
The withdrawal has brought you here to defend and protect this generation and you have my support and respect for that. If you read my post yesterday with my attempted experiment, I took the spheroids out of an Effexor capsule and put them in 30 ml of water. @ 8:45 am yesterday. 24 hours later, they're all still accounted for
and have not dissolved. I do not have the equipment available to measure how much of the venlafaxine permeated into the water and/or if any remained inside the spheroids. In order to be consistant with tapering with the appropriate dosage, one would have to count the spheroids inside the capsule, divide them up equally, and go from there. Sounds ridiculous to me. I thought possibly to crush the spheriods before adding water but that may or may not change the action from sustained release to immediate release. It reminds me of what they do on the streets. Get a hold of oxycontin, crush them, and snort it. It's just wrong. Changing a drug form for which it was intended should not be done in a kitchen, but in a controlled environment. I also agree with you that there are ding-dongs out there and the great thing is that you realize it. Our knowledge has increased significantly and you will aid in educating others. Please write back to me and let me know how you're doing this morning. AIK
> > I think it is the individual's choice whether to ask their doctor for "permission," which
> they will not receive, to reduce the dose in the manner described. A compounding
> pharmacist whom has specifically prepared custom Effexor formulations would likely
> know more about this than your doctor.>
>
>
> Sorry Dave, but I've got to disagree with ya here. I did not even ask my doctor to do this
> (mixing the stuff in water) and guess what? Yep, He told me to. Actually he told me to
> just dump out half of the capsule and take it that way. After reading what you all have
> said about this; it makes me wonder what kind of ding-dong I was going to. See Dave,
> this is what I was trying to express before. These Doctor's are not educated on the meds
> and we are the ones paying the price for thier ignorance.
>
>
> >> experimentation on my part (like I don't have enough to do). Support group, this has
> nothing to do with ingesting the drug...don't attempt it at this point. In fact, Dave did say
> earlier that it may be an alternative to tapering with capsules, but doesn't recommend it. I
> think he has raised the hair on the back of our necks when he minimizes our physical and
> mental pain. Also using asterisks when he refers to "if the withdrawal effects are *that*
> bad". Yes, it is *that* bad for these readers or they wouldn't be on this site.
>
> >Nothing I said was intended to minimize anyone's pain. I've already said that, but I guess
> it's not enough. Yes, I used asterisks when I said, "if the withdrawal effects are *that*
> bad." That just means what it says: if they are *that* bad for *you*. Some people don't
> find the withdrawal that big of a deal; others have a lot of difficulty. It varies. For someone
> not having great difficulty tapering the conventional way, it probably wouldn't be worth
> the hassle to fiddle with the capsules. That's all that was meant. The OP didn't indicate
> having a problem with tapering; IIRC, she had not yet even begun the process.<
>
>
> Oh my Dave, I think we all have seen the worst in you without even noticing the good. I
> think your post about the withdrawl and the need to sue has given you a bad reputation.
> Don't be confused, I am still in disagreement with you about this; but from reading your
> prior posts I see where you are coming from. Let me see if I have this right. You feel that
> by sueing the Drug company we are saying that there will be an end to them finding great
> cures and helps for the others that need it in the world. Is that it? If I am right, let me just
> say that, that is not our intentions. Have you seen what has been going on lately with the
> Effexor? Children and young kids are killing themselves not only from the withdrawl but
> some are doing it just from taking the meds. Now I don't know if you have kids, but I do
> and I will do anything, I mean "ANYTHING" within my power to protect them. If my
> child killed himself from taking this medicine and the company that produces the drug had
> knowledge of its effects, I sure as heck am not going to stand by and take a slap on the
> cheek. I assume you are trying to, for the drug companies, protect the rights to develop
> new things by saying we should not sue. But like you we also are trying to protect. By
> sueing we are protecting ourselves, others, and children most of all; from ever having to
> suffer like this again. Do you understand what I am saying?
>
> Anyhow, I think we all need to agree to disagree and move on. We need to get back to
> supporting one another through these hard times. Yes Dave, they really are hard. I
> wanted to kill myself last night but couldn't because I have to much resposibilty to others
> (sometimes that makes me angry). That responsibility is all that keeps me here somtimes
> (especially during this withdrawl process).
>
> Kelly
>
Posted by AIK on September 29, 2004, at 9:32:03
In reply to Re: please be civil » AIK, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2004, at 22:20:48
Dear Dr. Bob,
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will remember this in future posts.
Respectfully, AIK
> > I think ... he minimizes our physical and mental pain.
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by Bubblehead on September 29, 2004, at 14:46:49
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by AIK on September 29, 2004, at 7:48:03
Thank you AIK for being so sweet. I'm doing okay. I really shouldn't have even wrote that. I'm so embarassed. No one needs to worry about me. There are others who need more concern than I do. I just have issues with anger. Unfortunatly, through my upbringing I learned that anger is not allowed. Due to this, I have somehow learned to turn the anger in upon myself. Which leads to, yep you guessed it, suicide. I punish myself for being angry. Pretty strange huh? The Effexor helped this problem but not in the way it should have. At 450mg I was in what I like to call "The Effexor Coma." Like a coma, I could not feel things like emotions and I could not express them. I know they were in there but there was something blocking them (the Effexor). I left my Doctor and started tapering the Effexor about 3 months ago. I went very slowly and I did well...until I took my last half a capsule. That was two weeks ago tomorrow. What a nightmare. I feel for each and every person who is going through withdrawl symptoms. I've never had to experience any type of withdrawl before this. I don't know how actual drug addicts do it. I used to be so mean thoughted about addicts going through withdrawl thinking that they deserved it. Now, my heart even goes out to them. No one desrves this.
Any how, I am gradually day by day getting better. I do have a support family through my church. Thank God for them. Somedays are just a bit harder than others and I apologize for that. I really shouldn't have put that in that post. That is information that people really don't want to see or hear.
Again, thank you. You are such a sweetheart for being so concerned.
Kelly
Posted by AIK on September 29, 2004, at 16:07:37
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » AIK, posted by Bubblehead on September 29, 2004, at 14:46:49
Kelly,
Like I said before, you don't have to tow this load alone. I have been through counseling at certain stages of my life. If finances won't warrent it, there are free services listed in the front pages of most phone books. There is always someone to take your call. You don't have to give your name if you choose not to, just talk about what is going on. Since you mentioned that you have gotten support from your church (if of the Christian or Jewish faith), then you need to hold on to what the walk and talk with what God asks of you. That is not to take your own life. Life is the most precious thing that we have been given; you, me and the guy next door. We all are a part of God's plan, and if you leave us, we would all lose by you not being here. Do you know how wonderful it is to me that you answered my post? I know that some readers out there might think this sounds "hokey"; this is for you, me and the rest that are seeking survival for God's will, as we know him. If you need any help in locating a professional, ask for it, and it's yours. Dr. Bob informed me yesterday that I spoke out of line toward Dave, and I apologized for that. I sincerely hope that we don't get any negative remarks concerning the condition you are in, only support; I'm sure Dr. Bob would agree with that. I've come to realize that Dave is knowledgeable concerning medication, so I shouldn't have judged him as being a rebel toward our cause. So if he has suggestions for you how to taper your Effexor, it is worth a try (whether I agree with it or not). The important thing here is your survival during withdrawal. Do you know that during severe withdrawal symtoms, a doctor can put you on another drug to get you through it? It is dosed appropriately so you don't get hooked on it either. I don't know your age, however, could your depression or change in behavior being placed on Effexor initionally, be due to the fact of hormonal changes? Pre-or post menstral symptoms, pre-or post menapause symptoms? I know of a gal who is going into early menapause, and she hasn't even hit 30 years old! Sometimes that is overlooked by physicians and the Effexor is an alternative to getting to the root of the problem. Perhaps it's genetic. All of the above is me. It has passed on to my nieces as well. Yes, I am sweet, but also direct. I want the best for you, Kelly, that the future has to offer. I will do the best that I can to get you through this. Write me back. AIK> Thank you AIK for being so sweet. I'm doing okay. I really shouldn't have even wrote that. I'm so embarassed. No one needs to worry about me. There are others who need more concern than I do. I just have issues with anger. Unfortunatly, through my upbringing I learned that anger is not allowed. Due to this, I have somehow learned to turn the anger in upon myself. Which leads to, yep you guessed it, suicide. I punish myself for being angry. Pretty strange huh? The Effexor helped this problem but not in the way it should have. At 450mg I was in what I like to call "The Effexor Coma." Like a coma, I could not feel things like emotions and I could not express them. I know they were in there but there was something blocking them (the Effexor). I left my Doctor and started tapering the Effexor about 3 months ago. I went very slowly and I did well...until I took my last half a capsule. That was two weeks ago tomorrow. What a nightmare. I feel for each and every person who is going through withdrawl symptoms. I've never had to experience any type of withdrawl before this. I don't know how actual drug addicts do it. I used to be so mean thoughted about addicts going through withdrawl thinking that they deserved it. Now, my heart even goes out to them. No one desrves this.
> Any how, I am gradually day by day getting better. I do have a support family through my church. Thank God for them. Somedays are just a bit harder than others and I apologize for that. I really shouldn't have put that in that post. That is information that people really don't want to see or hear.
> Again, thank you. You are such a sweetheart for being so concerned.
> Kelly
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 29, 2004, at 22:37:21
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by AIK on September 29, 2004, at 9:32:03
Posted by Bubblehead on September 30, 2004, at 10:51:05
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by AIK on September 29, 2004, at 16:07:37
> Like I said before, you don't have to tow this load alone. I have been through counseling at certain stages of my life.
I guess I failed to mention that I have been through various types of counseling during my life. I'm not afraid to call one when I need to. I actually still have a close enough relationship with one to have and action plan, just in case I ever think I might follow through with my thoughts. I also have mmy pastor and his wife to turn to. They are good family friends.
> Since you mentioned that you have gotten support from your church (if of the Christian or Jewish faith), then you need to hold on to what the walk and talk with what God asks of you. That is not to take your own life. Life is the most precious thing that we have been given; you, me and the guy next door. We all are a part of God's plan, and if you leave us, we would all lose by you not being here. Do you know how wonderful it is to me that you answered my post? I know that some readers out there might think this sounds "hokey"; this is for you, me and the rest that are seeking survival for God's will, as we know him.
I am Christian and do rely upon God. I just get caught up in the flesh of this world sometimes. I have suffered with depression all of my life. I do have actual chemistry related depression but a majority of it comes from circumstance. The garabage from those circumstances is in my face daily, not because I won't let go but because I still live in the town I grew up in. The depression is differnt this time though. I don't know if it is the withdrawl or if the Effexor changed my chemistry. The depression sort of reminds me of Bipolar. I am have extremely high and happy days and I am having very low and down days. You caught me on a low day with that post. On the low days, I feel like a demon has moved into my house and taken over my body and mind. I am not myself. Those are the days God carries me. I know that God is letting this so that I will move closer to him and learn from it. I'm just not there yet.
> The important thing here is your survival during withdrawal. Do you know that during severe withdrawal symtoms, a doctor can put you on another drug to get you through it?Yes, my Doc put me on Zoloft. Unfortunatly, he did not give me a ray of hope with it. Here is his point to me, "I'll put you on the Zoloft but, like the all other antidepressants you have tried, it either won't work or you'll have the exact same side affects as you had with them all. Which therefore means that you will have to go on the old time drugs and learn to deal with those side affects." Lovely huh? I am on NO antidepressants (I am scared of them now). I am taking 1200mg of fish oil a day and it has helped some. I am going to a naturalist (who is also a very close Christian friend) who will help me find the right combination eventually.
>I don't know your age, however, could your depression or change in behavior being placed on Effexor initionally, be due to the fact of hormonal changes? Pre-or post menstral symptoms, pre-or post menapause symptoms? I know of a gal who is going into early menapause, and she hasn't even hit 30 years old!
I'm 29 and was placed on the Effexor for major depressive disorder/Post tramatic along with postpartum sycosis. I tried many other Ad's that failed before the Effexor. The Effexor actually was stressing my body so much that I was going into peri-menopause.
My Mom went early so I know I will, but 29 is just crazy.
> I want the best for you, Kelly, that the future has to offer. I will do the best that I can to get you through this. Write me back. AIK
>Thank you. Your spirit is uplifting. I'm in a time of transition and I know God will see me through. He already is, he placed you in my path! Thank you. Kelly
Posted by AIK on September 30, 2004, at 14:02:23
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » AIK, posted by Bubblehead on September 30, 2004, at 10:51:05
Have you been educated about Bio-Identical Hormone Replacement for mood swings? Since my early twenties I was diagnosed as being "bi-polar". Mis-diagnosed at that. Flipping out here and there, then becoming very happy (and along with it a sex drive). Until 7 years ago. I was talking to a pharmacist about my condition. She asked me to keep track how long my depression lasted (along with the onset and end of my menstral cycle) and my happy, good-feeling times. After the second month the pattern was evident. My mood changes were consistant with my cycle. I was a tyrant for 2 weeks prior to getting my period. During my period I would start to become more rational and more tolerant of my surroundings. The day following the last day of my period, I'd get this "sex drive". Unfortunately for my husband that is the one day that it is extremely powerful. The next 2 weeks I was in my "happy mood"...then I'd ovulate, and the crap mood came back until I got my period again. Some gals get in worse moods than I and others less. All I can say is that if it wouldn't have been for that pharmacist, I'd still be living a yo-yo life. If you go on the web and type in bio-identical hormone replacement mood swings, you can some info there. The formulations they use are not the cancer causing synthetic estrogens or synthetic progestins (progesterone is the natural chemical that is in your body already). Adjustments are made at some points when my body ages. Check it out. Glad to hear you're having a better day! AIK
> > Like I said before, you don't have to tow this load alone. I have been through counseling at certain stages of my life.
>
> I guess I failed to mention that I have been through various types of counseling during my life. I'm not afraid to call one when I need to. I actually still have a close enough relationship with one to have and action plan, just in case I ever think I might follow through with my thoughts. I also have mmy pastor and his wife to turn to. They are good family friends.
>
>
>
> > Since you mentioned that you have gotten support from your church (if of the Christian or Jewish faith), then you need to hold on to what the walk and talk with what God asks of you. That is not to take your own life. Life is the most precious thing that we have been given; you, me and the guy next door. We all are a part of God's plan, and if you leave us, we would all lose by you not being here. Do you know how wonderful it is to me that you answered my post? I know that some readers out there might think this sounds "hokey"; this is for you, me and the rest that are seeking survival for God's will, as we know him.
>
> I am Christian and do rely upon God. I just get caught up in the flesh of this world sometimes. I have suffered with depression all of my life. I do have actual chemistry related depression but a majority of it comes from circumstance. The garabage from those circumstances is in my face daily, not because I won't let go but because I still live in the town I grew up in. The depression is differnt this time though. I don't know if it is the withdrawl or if the Effexor changed my chemistry. The depression sort of reminds me of Bipolar. I am have extremely high and happy days and I am having very low and down days. You caught me on a low day with that post. On the low days, I feel like a demon has moved into my house and taken over my body and mind. I am not myself. Those are the days God carries me. I know that God is letting this so that I will move closer to him and learn from it. I'm just not there yet.
>
>
> > The important thing here is your survival during withdrawal. Do you know that during severe withdrawal symtoms, a doctor can put you on another drug to get you through it?
>
> Yes, my Doc put me on Zoloft. Unfortunatly, he did not give me a ray of hope with it. Here is his point to me, "I'll put you on the Zoloft but, like the all other antidepressants you have tried, it either won't work or you'll have the exact same side affects as you had with them all. Which therefore means that you will have to go on the old time drugs and learn to deal with those side affects." Lovely huh? I am on NO antidepressants (I am scared of them now). I am taking 1200mg of fish oil a day and it has helped some. I am going to a naturalist (who is also a very close Christian friend) who will help me find the right combination eventually.
>
> >I don't know your age, however, could your depression or change in behavior being placed on Effexor initionally, be due to the fact of hormonal changes? Pre-or post menstral symptoms, pre-or post menapause symptoms? I know of a gal who is going into early menapause, and she hasn't even hit 30 years old!
>
> I'm 29 and was placed on the Effexor for major depressive disorder/Post tramatic along with postpartum sycosis. I tried many other Ad's that failed before the Effexor. The Effexor actually was stressing my body so much that I was going into peri-menopause.
> My Mom went early so I know I will, but 29 is just crazy.
>
>
> > I want the best for you, Kelly, that the future has to offer. I will do the best that I can to get you through this. Write me back. AIK
> >
>
> Thank you. Your spirit is uplifting. I'm in a time of transition and I know God will see me through. He already is, he placed you in my path! Thank you. Kelly
Posted by ants on September 30, 2004, at 14:41:42
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by AIK on September 30, 2004, at 14:02:23
I have a question about the hormon-related mood swing issue. I have recently gone on effexor-i told my doc I was moody, irritable, and had frequent crying bouts and this was his solution. A female doctor who was also there asked if i had kept a journal to see if it was related to my cycle. I said no and she suggested that, but now that I am on this medication I haven't bothered to do that...
Now, my question is-is there some way to figure out if it was related to my cycle now that I am on medication? Will I still get moody and crazy even with the medication and then i will know? Or will it "mask" that problem...I don't want to go off effexor (for fear of withdrawal) just to find out I actually need it, but i also don't want to stay on it if its not what i needed...
any ideas?
Posted by AIK on September 30, 2004, at 15:45:43
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » AIK, posted by ants on September 30, 2004, at 14:41:42
Yep, I sure do. Make an appt. with your OB/GYN and have him order a hormone level test (lipids, etc). If your doctor won't work with you on this, contact a compounding pharmacy and they will lead you in the right direction finding an open-minded doctor. There is also a saliva test available that I purchased that you send back to the lab and then get the results. Your compounding pharmacist and doctor will be able to read it and if your levels are low in one or more of the hormones, they'll come up with a dosage to meet your needs. I was put on Effexor for pain associated with some of my conditions and have been tapering off this because it hasn't helped to relieve the pain. Happy to say that today I reduced down to 1/2 of 37.5 mg tablet a day and hope for a peaceful tomorrow & the next week at this low dose. Next Friday, (Oct 8th) hopefully, I will be Effexor free!!!) Good luck in your search for alternatives to Effexor. If your mood swings are not hormone related, then I would continue with the Effexor (or some other SSRI or SNRI since it helps you. AIK
> I have a question about the hormon-related mood swing issue. I have recently gone on effexor-i told my doc I was moody, irritable, and had frequent crying bouts and this was his solution. A female doctor who was also there asked if i had kept a journal to see if it was related to my cycle. I said no and she suggested that, but now that I am on this medication I haven't bothered to do that...
>
> Now, my question is-is there some way to figure out if it was related to my cycle now that I am on medication? Will I still get moody and crazy even with the medication and then i will know? Or will it "mask" that problem...I don't want to go off effexor (for fear of withdrawal) just to find out I actually need it, but i also don't want to stay on it if its not what i needed...
>
> any ideas?
Posted by CarolinaGuy on September 30, 2004, at 22:47:05
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable, posted by ants on September 23, 2004, at 11:59:00
I have tapered my effexor for the past month. I also started Wellbutrin about three weeks ago. I took my last 37.4 on Sunday, it is now Thursday. I never could have imagined that I could feel this sick. I have felt the need to vomit since Sunday night. I went through some awful physiological, pschological, and physical pain. I found this website yesterday and it has felt like the biggest blessing. Knowing that others have gone through this, that I am not going crazy. I can not thank all of you enough. My question is, how much longer of this? What can I do to feel better? Is there anything OTC or herbal or anything to make the withdrawl better? Thank you so much, I have not watched this much tv or ordered this much pizza in my life. I am ready to feel like myself again.
Posted by AIK on October 1, 2004, at 6:43:26
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable, posted by CarolinaGuy on September 30, 2004, at 22:47:05
If you didn't have the stomach upset when you began your tapering, but have it since you stopped completely...this is what I have been doing. I reduced my dosage by 1/2 a tablet every 7 days. I'm down to 1/2 tablet of a 37.5 a day (I'm at day 2 of this dosage). Last night was the first night I didn't have a 1/2 tablet, but will take it this am. I'm hoping not to have the fog and stomach upset. Your tablets are scored to break in half so you might want to do what I was doing by taking 1/2 tablet in the am and 1/2 tablet a night for 7 days, then reduce to only 1/2 tablet for 7 days. All I know is that I was sick as a dog a few days after I stopped taking the 37.5 mg tablet completely, so I went back on it so I could function. That's when it was suggested to me to taper my dose down by a half tablet every 7 days. I have not been sick to the stomach or foggy in the head doing it this way...so far anyway. The next few days will tell if my body will be OK on only the 1/2 tablet per day. I don't have my herbals book here at the moment which will also list drug interactions, since you're taking Wellbutrin. As far as OTC's, I was chewing up all kinds of anti-acids, but got no relief (I belched a lot though!) Someone will reply to how long their stomach sickness lasted when they stopped completely. I'll get back to you later with the herbal info.
> I have tapered my effexor for the past month. I also started Wellbutrin about three weeks ago. I took my last 37.4 on Sunday, it is now Thursday. I never could have imagined that I could feel this sick. I have felt the need to vomit since Sunday night. I went through some awful physiological, pschological, and physical pain. I found this website yesterday and it has felt like the biggest blessing. Knowing that others have gone through this, that I am not going crazy. I can not thank all of you enough. My question is, how much longer of this? What can I do to feel better? Is there anything OTC or herbal or anything to make the withdrawl better? Thank you so much, I have not watched this much tv or ordered this much pizza in my life. I am ready to feel like myself again.
Posted by AIK on October 1, 2004, at 8:27:02
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable, posted by AIK on October 1, 2004, at 6:43:26
This is what I found:
Ginger root 1 g doses, repeated as necessary (no adverse interaction with Effexor or Wellbutrin, but no not take if you're on warfarin (Coumadin)).
Raspberry leaf tea 1.5 to 2.4 g/day. (no adverse interaction with Effexor or Wellbutrin but do not use if you're pregnant or lactating).
There is more on the list. Your pharmacy should be able to provide you with a printout with herbal/drug interactions.***CAUTION***DO NOT take St. John's Wort while taking any prescription or nonprescription drugs before contacting your health care professional! It alters the metabolism of many drugs***Thought I needed to pass this along since you brought up herbals. Before seeking relief on your own for your upset stomach, please call your doctor and inform him that you are suffering nausea and feel it's due to the withdrawal of the Effexor and ask about the ginger root and raspberry leaf tea. He/she may have something else to offer that will give you relief. Better Health To The Days Ahead!> If you didn't have the stomach upset when you began your tapering, but have it since you stopped completely...this is what I have been doing. I reduced my dosage by 1/2 a tablet every 7 days. I'm down to 1/2 tablet of a 37.5 a day (I'm at day 2 of this dosage). Last night was the first night I didn't have a 1/2 tablet, but will take it this am. I'm hoping not to have the fog and stomach upset. Your tablets are scored to break in half so you might want to do what I was doing by taking 1/2 tablet in the am and 1/2 tablet a night for 7 days, then reduce to only 1/2 tablet for 7 days. All I know is that I was sick as a dog a few days after I stopped taking the 37.5 mg tablet completely, so I went back on it so I could function. That's when it was suggested to me to taper my dose down by a half tablet every 7 days. I have not been sick to the stomach or foggy in the head doing it this way...so far anyway. The next few days will tell if my body will be OK on only the 1/2 tablet per day. I don't have my herbals book here at the moment which will also list drug interactions, since you're taking Wellbutrin. As far as OTC's, I was chewing up all kinds of anti-acids, but got no relief (I belched a lot though!) Someone will reply to how long their stomach sickness lasted when they stopped completely. I'll get back to you later with the herbal info.
>
> > I have tapered my effexor for the past month. I also started Wellbutrin about three weeks ago. I took my last 37.4 on Sunday, it is now Thursday. I never could have imagined that I could feel this sick. I have felt the need to vomit since Sunday night. I went through some awful physiological, pschological, and physical pain. I found this website yesterday and it has felt like the biggest blessing. Knowing that others have gone through this, that I am not going crazy. I can not thank all of you enough. My question is, how much longer of this? What can I do to feel better? Is there anything OTC or herbal or anything to make the withdrawl better? Thank you so much, I have not watched this much tv or ordered this much pizza in my life. I am ready to feel like myself again.
>
>
Posted by Jiggitykid on October 4, 2004, at 14:52:17
In reply to Re: blocked for week » Jiggitykid, posted by Dr. Bob on September 26, 2004, at 19:32:07
I apologize for the accusatory tone in the post.
> > the patronizing tone of the posts
> >
> > to imply what your original post ... did ... is insulting.
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
>
> I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 5, 2004, at 1:44:14
In reply to Re: blocked for week » Dr. Bob, posted by Jiggitykid on October 4, 2004, at 14:52:17
Posted by Jubilee on October 6, 2004, at 2:18:48
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable, posted by AIK on October 1, 2004, at 8:27:02
Wrote my first post called "EFFEXOR WITHDRAWAL;YOU CAN DO!
I HOPE YOU WILL LOOK IT UP ON A DIFF THREAD. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041002/msgs/398346.html
Did'nt really know what I was doing and ended up starting new thread. also on http...babble/20041002/msgs/399260.html I have had excelent results going off slow, and I'm talking from 300mg's a day for long time down over a period of 4 to 5 months. I've tried 2 other times and first time almost got locked up in loonie ben. Hypermania, blacking out in the middle of conversations, triple vision, and flu symptoms. that was only off 75's. Second time ; went too fast and ended up causing myself a mild stroke. Met someone by e-mail on the effexor petion page I found who gave me hope again for getting my life back.(have addresses) The key is very slow and other meds to help with effects. In the overall process I ended up with a bottle of 60 ,10mg prozac, a bunch of 37.5's and alot of 150's I was on. (I also save every pebble and measure in a lg capsul) I am over two months into withdrawal from 300mg's a day to just started a 75 am and a 37.5 pm this week. I do 5 days of prozac with every drop and space at least 3 weeks apart. Also got anti-hystamine sprayer for headackes, nausea pills, and some old panic attack pills,inderal for panic symptoms. God definatly I feel interviened for me and I believe he will do the same for others. After studying other's affects off the threads ,I knew what I needed to suceed. My worst effects are difficulty sleeping and fighting sleep and now waking up "drug out" when I do sleep. Nausea ,only if I do not take prozac first 5 days with a drop. Overall, pretty darn good and I m very excited about getting my life back after the last 4 years. I've had insomnia and been going blind, plus hypermania and agitation for 4 years. Also ,I can still drive this time. I had every side affect on petition except , high blood preasure. Effexor Petition address is http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/ Very informing on effexor side affects and found Dougs e-mail there. Oh yeah,He has his own web site and story of withdrawals. he just went real slow and took a tranculizer. ( Please excuse my spelling) I sure hope this has been some kind of help for you and hopefully others that read. It's my heart to give others hope ,like I was given. God Bless you. Jubilee
Posted by AIK on October 6, 2004, at 8:14:04
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable;reI found Hope, posted by Jubilee on October 6, 2004, at 2:18:48
Optimism (definition: to anticipate the best possible outcome). My body is telling me "don't like being on 1/2 tab a day...want more". I was certain I was on my way to recovery. 3 days into my last of the tapering down: the fog, the vomiting, to "h" with everyone around me (more severe than ever before). I even told a co-worker to make sure they bury me in my wedding dress since no one else wants to wear the "d" thing. I'm so mad at myself for allowing "me" to put this substance into my body in the first place without knowing the severity of withdrawal if I ever had to go off of it. Oh, that's right...the general public or prescribing doctor didn't know that at the time of this "cure all". Not just for depression anymore! Hot flashes, pain, whatever. I'm so beside myself right now I can't write anymore. Effexor sure is great for keeping one in a "quiet state" while everyone around you beats the "s" out of you...and you just let it go...like I've said before, La, la, la, la. Dr. Bob can now knock me off his site as he sees fit. I'm done. This will make that Dave person from a few weeks ago very happy, as he can practice pharmacy without the rest of you knowing if he's legit or not. "Let's be Civil". Hard to do in withdrawal, dah
> Wrote my first post called "EFFEXOR WITHDRAWAL;YOU CAN DO!
> I HOPE YOU WILL LOOK IT UP ON A DIFF THREAD. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041002/msgs/398346.html
> Did'nt really know what I was doing and ended up starting new thread. also on http...babble/20041002/msgs/399260.html I have had excelent results going off slow, and I'm talking from 300mg's a day for long time down over a period of 4 to 5 months. I've tried 2 other times and first time almost got locked up in loonie ben. Hypermania, blacking out in the middle of conversations, triple vision, and flu symptoms. that was only off 75's. Second time ; went too fast and ended up causing myself a mild stroke. Met someone by e-mail on the effexor petion page I found who gave me hope again for getting my life back.(have addresses) The key is very slow and other meds to help with effects. In the overall process I ended up with a bottle of 60 ,10mg prozac, a bunch of 37.5's and alot of 150's I was on. (I also save every pebble and measure in a lg capsul) I am over two months into withdrawal from 300mg's a day to just started a 75 am and a 37.5 pm this week. I do 5 days of prozac with every drop and space at least 3 weeks apart. Also got anti-hystamine sprayer for headackes, nausea pills, and some old panic attack pills,inderal for panic symptoms. God definatly I feel interviened for me and I believe he will do the same for others. After studying other's affects off the threads ,I knew what I needed to suceed. My worst effects are difficulty sleeping and fighting sleep and now waking up "drug out" when I do sleep. Nausea ,only if I do not take prozac first 5 days with a drop. Overall, pretty darn good and I m very excited about getting my life back after the last 4 years. I've had insomnia and been going blind, plus hypermania and agitation for 4 years. Also ,I can still drive this time. I had every side affect on petition except , high blood preasure. Effexor Petition address is http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/ Very informing on effexor side affects and found Dougs e-mail there. Oh yeah,He has his own web site and story of withdrawals. he just went real slow and took a tranculizer. ( Please excuse my spelling) I sure hope this has been some kind of help for you and hopefully others that read. It's my heart to give others hope ,like I was given. God Bless you. Jubilee
Posted by Jiggitykid on October 6, 2004, at 11:51:02
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable;reI found Hope, posted by AIK on October 6, 2004, at 8:14:04
I'm truly sorry you are in so much pain, physical and mental. All I can tell you is that, once the withdrawal was over and all of the effexor was out of my system, I was better. The withdrawal was horrible. But, once the first two weeks of no effexor was over, things began to be better. After the third week, I was feeling somewhat hopeful again. After the fourth week, I was actually thinking about the future.
It's hard, but it can be done. I know that sounds trite, with what you are going through. NONE of this is your fault. NONE of it. Please take care of yourself. Hang on!!
> Optimism (definition: to anticipate the best possible outcome). My body is telling me "don't like being on 1/2 tab a day...want more". I was certain I was on my way to recovery. 3 days into my last of the tapering down: the fog, the vomiting, to "h" with everyone around me (more severe than ever before). I even told a co-worker to make sure they bury me in my wedding dress since no one else wants to wear the "d" thing. I'm so mad at myself for allowing "me" to put this substance into my body in the first place without knowing the severity of withdrawal if I ever had to go off of it. Oh, that's right...the general public or prescribing doctor didn't know that at the time of this "cure all". Not just for depression anymore! Hot flashes, pain, whatever. I'm so beside myself right now I can't write anymore. Effexor sure is great for keeping one in a "quiet state" while everyone around you beats the "s" out of you...and you just let it go...like I've said before, La, la, la, la. Dr. Bob can now knock me off his site as he sees fit. I'm done. This will make that Dave person from a few weeks ago very happy, as he can practice pharmacy without the rest of you knowing if he's legit or not. "Let's be Civil". Hard to do in withdrawal, dah
>
> > Wrote my first post called "EFFEXOR WITHDRAWAL;YOU CAN DO!
> > I HOPE YOU WILL LOOK IT UP ON A DIFF THREAD. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041002/msgs/398346.html
> > Did'nt really know what I was doing and ended up starting new thread. also on http...babble/20041002/msgs/399260.html I have had excelent results going off slow, and I'm talking from 300mg's a day for long time down over a period of 4 to 5 months. I've tried 2 other times and first time almost got locked up in loonie ben. Hypermania, blacking out in the middle of conversations, triple vision, and flu symptoms. that was only off 75's. Second time ; went too fast and ended up causing myself a mild stroke. Met someone by e-mail on the effexor petion page I found who gave me hope again for getting my life back.(have addresses) The key is very slow and other meds to help with effects. In the overall process I ended up with a bottle of 60 ,10mg prozac, a bunch of 37.5's and alot of 150's I was on. (I also save every pebble and measure in a lg capsul) I am over two months into withdrawal from 300mg's a day to just started a 75 am and a 37.5 pm this week. I do 5 days of prozac with every drop and space at least 3 weeks apart. Also got anti-hystamine sprayer for headackes, nausea pills, and some old panic attack pills,inderal for panic symptoms. God definatly I feel interviened for me and I believe he will do the same for others. After studying other's affects off the threads ,I knew what I needed to suceed. My worst effects are difficulty sleeping and fighting sleep and now waking up "drug out" when I do sleep. Nausea ,only if I do not take prozac first 5 days with a drop. Overall, pretty darn good and I m very excited about getting my life back after the last 4 years. I've had insomnia and been going blind, plus hypermania and agitation for 4 years. Also ,I can still drive this time. I had every side affect on petition except , high blood preasure. Effexor Petition address is http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/ Very informing on effexor side affects and found Dougs e-mail there. Oh yeah,He has his own web site and story of withdrawals. he just went real slow and took a tranculizer. ( Please excuse my spelling) I sure hope this has been some kind of help for you and hopefully others that read. It's my heart to give others hope ,like I was given. God Bless you. Jubilee
>
>
Posted by invisiblemanpa on October 7, 2004, at 16:35:32
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable;reI found Hope » AIK, posted by Jiggitykid on October 6, 2004, at 11:51:02
Hey don't give up..I will probably be feeling some of he same next week when I plan to be on zero. If I would of stayed at 225 mg, I think I would of become suicidal. It truely brought me to the lowest of lows that I have felt. I was never more apathetic, I still have some left after this week...so who knows...maybe I will have to count out a few more microcapsules...but I AM going to get this out of my system...it has never helped me..depression wise or anxiety.......for those that it has helped...well God Bless em......
Are you also on any type of benzo....I know the Klonopin is making this a bit easier for me.....
E
Posted by Jo52 on October 12, 2004, at 10:42:17
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable;reI found Hope, posted by Jubilee on October 6, 2004, at 2:18:48
I began Effexor XR 75 mg end of July and stopped it on October 4th after suffering from horrible nightmares and incredible loss of sleep. My family doc said I shouldn't have any withdrawal symptoms since I was on it for such a short period of time. IT HAS BEEN HORRIBLE!!! I did talk the doc into giving me some Wellbutrin after reading here it helps with withdrawal. I started it on Oct 8th. However, I started throwing up on Oct 7th and did so for three days. I have continued to have an intermittent fever, horrible dizziness, the most bizarre tingling around my mouth, on my lips and the tip of my tongue. I also am experiencing crying jags, chills, can't sleep, and my body suddenly heats up like it's 200 degrees awake or asleep. I don't think my family doc is going to be of any help, can anyone here clue me in - how long is this HELL going to last?????????
Posted by Sarah whea on October 26, 2004, at 22:04:34
In reply to Re: My experience with quitting cold turkey (150 mg), posted by soshie on November 2, 2003, at 8:50:15
Posted by Jubilee on October 27, 2004, at 18:29:25
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable;reI found Hope, posted by Jo52 on October 12, 2004, at 10:42:17
I have been reading different posts on this thread and I noticed my post was moved over here . I hope that was a good thing.
I wanted to let all others know what is going on so far as I am taking 4 or 5 months at least. ( I started the 1st of Aug.). I read a post that suggested 25 mgs a week from her doc, so I tried it. Not bad, at first, but after my second drop for the second week I am doing half 37's now and I am dealing with a mild head ache and some nausea. I decided to go ten days before going down again, and remember I use 10.mgs of prozac every time I drop for the first 3 days, which really helps.
When going off effexor it was advised by my doc to take it 2 times a day. So I am taking half a 37.5 in AM and PM and I will stay on this for two weeks this time.
AK, I think that two months is way too fast, and I think myself that I would tell my Doc that I changed my mind and wanted to go back on it and get more if you are out and take the 4 or 5 month idea. I'd just keep picking it up and go off slow with support form the posts. I wouldnt have said anything if I was to do it again, especially if I was on a low dose. Thats just what I would do as I realize that most people arn't like me accidentally starting off with a bottle of 60 -150mgs to spread out that far.(as 5 or 6 months) I'll be honest aabout what I did. I figured my doc wouldnt understand , and I happened to have this bottle when I decided, but I went in and asked for prozac and a histamine sprayer( and if I wasn't already on Welbutrin, I would have asked for that as a back up for my depression. ) sense I told him I was going off that is. If you have refils , just keep ordering them . I already had an anti nausea for when my chronic pain makes me sick , so I take a stomach pill, a prozac, a tranc he gave me for the agitation effexor causes, and I have inderal for panic attacks I used to get real bad. (Thats a safe heart pill that stops the attacks I used to get when I went to 12 step meetings) You can cut pills with sissors I discovered and I would cut them in small pieces and go down over like 4 months. Tell him you want more if possible , or I would say I changed my mind and just keep picking it up each month. I took my power back from doctors a couple years ago as they have almost killed me before. I told my doc thank you and just did my thing. He isnt God. Anti hystimine spray really knocks the headaches, and I figure if your head hurts too bad then you are going too fast. I already have Fibromialgia and getting thru the day is hard enough. I wrote on another thread today also, as I try to help and encourage as many as possible. When I read the effexor petition, added to one of AK's posts or I'll do it again
http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/I don't believe in lying , but I don't believe in dying if at all possible either! If I ran out of effexor and became dog sick I would say I insist on going back on it if possible because I love the stuff if I had to!, or at least ask for some prozac for ten days , or some of the things mentioned above. I was told to take at least 3 or 4 months and so far its working . I would find some way to go back on effexor and do it right, and keep it your business. I don't know much about welbutrin as I am going off it too, but I have been healed of my dep. so I don't need anything.but I was on elavil for 19 years and it has no withdrawels , has a mild sedative in it a chronic pain killer, and helps you sleep. I had every side affect from effexor except high blood preasure. It ruined my vision, caused agitation, anxiety, and insomnia, and hypomania (just plain manic!!)and more for 4 years and I am already getting alot of my mind back and finally sleeping again and feeling calm. I am on 2 half 37.5's now and will be for two weeks. I will keep checking in. I hope this has given somebody hope and some ideas. Also 300mgs to 75 isn't a bad drop, its when you get lower its more dangerous.God be with you all, jubilee..
Posted by boatsie on October 28, 2004, at 19:46:27
In reply to Re: effexor w/drl so far so good, posted by Jubilee on October 27, 2004, at 18:29:25
I started cutting back on Effexor ER early this summer. I was on 300mg for several years following about six years on Paxil. My cut backs have been 225 for one month, 185 for two months and now I am at 150 since September. Each step has been symptomatic: headaches, flu like symptoms, anxiety, fatigue .... I am taking a 'green' supplement which has everything you can think of each morning, along with CoQ10, Ginko, B Complex and Cal Mag. I am currently free from the feeling that my mind was an enormous black hole and I was always struggling to reach back into this void to find meaning, continuity, self, and even simple sentence structure. Word retrieval problems? Gone. Lack of motication: ebbing, always ebbing. depression: in and out, some days worse than others.
The next step down will probably be to 125 or something very minimal. I am grateful to have a psychiatrist who is working with me every step of the way, even though she truly believes that in severe cases of mjd left untreated as mine was over many years, damage to brain is unrepairable. I still believe I will prove that wrong someday; and i know she does as well.
After so many years on medication, the shortfalls start outweighting the benefits.
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