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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 116. Go back in thread:
Posted by SpreadDaALoha on March 19, 2003, at 18:51:47
In reply to Re: Lamictal-What's high dosage??, posted by SpreadDaALoha on March 19, 2003, at 18:46:35
I have to add something funny...
I am in graduate school (how I am doing it I do not know). I went to the nutritionist because it is cheap at school and I was curious. I told her my diet and she said "well I would have bipolar disorder too if I ate like you do!" She was only kidding, but it made me think a lot about my diet better...
Posted by Krissy P on March 19, 2003, at 18:54:29
In reply to Re: Lamictal-What's high dosage??, posted by SpreadDaALoha on March 19, 2003, at 18:51:47
Hey-
what?????!!!! what role does diet play in BP? May I ask what your diet is? I want to compare mine lol I know we need to eat a lot and I know the Omega-3 Fatty acids in salmon, etc. are key to mood, but what did she mean by that? lol that is funny! Hope to hear back from ya!
Aloha:-)
Kristen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> I have to add something funny...
> I am in graduate school (how I am doing it I do not know). I went to the nutritionist because it is cheap at school and I was curious. I told her my diet and she said "well I would have bipolar disorder too if I ate like you do!" She was only kidding, but it made me think a lot about my diet better...
Posted by JackD on March 19, 2003, at 19:23:53
In reply to Lamictil is NOT a mood stabilizer » Krissy P, posted by BarbaraCat on March 18, 2003, at 15:33:44
I've been lurking on this thread, and I remember you had a similar response as I did on Remeron (Good response and then poopout). I'm curious that perhaps since we seem to have that in common Nortriptyline may work for me too. What is your current cocktail? I'm on 1350mg Lithium, 400mg Lamictal, and 1mg Klonopin.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 19, 2003, at 23:33:36
In reply to Re: Lamictil is NOT a mood stabilizer -BarbaraCat, posted by JackD on March 19, 2003, at 19:23:53
Dear Y'all,
Well, hope I can put some of my experience to good use. I'm probably BP-II rather than major depressive disorder as I thought for 25 years. Have had classic hypomanic symptoms that were a giveaway, but the clearest symptoms have been my non-responsiveness to SSRI's. There's a great book called "Why your depression isn't getting better" that clued me into why SSRI's made things worse for me and why I needed a mood stabilizer. Hence, lithium.It has been a very mild benign drug. I'm only taking 600mg vs the usual 1200mg 'therapeutic window dose'. The only noticeable side effects were some hand tremors at the beginning. More disturbing was the negative thyroid effects. I was already hypothyroid and that can cause depression, weight gain, muscle pain in it's own right. But lithium competes with thyroxin at the receptor site and can cause exacerbation of hypothyroidism. I've been taking more thyroid med and it's been helping, but I worry about long-term problems.
Even so, without lithium I start to disintegrate. I'm currently on 600mg lithium, 50mg lamictal, 75mg nortriptyline and occassional valium for stress and ambien for sleep. This seems to be the best cocktail I've been on in 20 years. The main side effect of nortriptyline is dry mouth, but it encourages me to drink more water. It also can cause weight gain, but I've been on so many porky drugs that I just gave in and realized that without exercise you just get fat, no matter what you're taking. So now I'm feeling better and exercising and getting buff in the process. For whatever reason, nortriptyline has worked better than any other SSRI I've been on. It feels more natural and seems to work on all levels instead of just serotonin.
Another thing to keep in mind is the role of reproductive hormones. Depending on what phase of life you're at, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone play a HUGE role in all this stuff. Not nearly enough attention is paid to this very crucial topic. Hormones seem to be the master key to so many health and mood issues and doctors just aren't paying attention. You have to do your own research and put the pieces together because docs are so specialized they don't see the connections between their specialized fields.
I also have to say that these past two years of being without work, my Mother dying rather tragically, being very sick physically and mentally, and coming to terms with Life in all it's grand design has caused me to wake up in so many ways and pay attention to Right Now and give up brooding about what may be. All that fretting takes energy away from positive action.
Meds keep my overactive imagination in line, but the rest is truly up to me and I believe I'm getting it at last. I need help, but it truly is up to me. And yes, diet is very important. What would make you think otherwise? You put shitty fuel in a car and it clogs up and breaks down. The only thing we really have any control over in this life is what we choose to put into our bodies. Garbage in, garbage out. Don't get me started on how that whole subject is totally ignored by the medical profession. - Barbara
Posted by Krissy P on March 19, 2003, at 23:54:26
In reply to Meds and all that jazz, posted by BarbaraCat on March 19, 2003, at 23:33:36
ah so much to say about this topic. My docs have always paid attention to diets. I learned a long time ago that if it's to be-it's up to me and when people relaize this-life is good. I took a lot of meds tonight-I hate them right now and wonder if I will ever be able to function without them-probably not-I tried-and that gets me down. Yeah, things could always be worse-but they can always be better too. Diet is important yes, but some people can't be perfect and to think otherwise, is ignorant. Sure, you can put shitty fuel in your car and it runs right? Put in a cookie instead of an apple in your body and yeah, you still run. Whatever we eat, we will die anyway. A lot of people have eaten terrible, smoked cigars or the like, and lived to be over 100-so what makes us any different????
Sometimes when a person does everyting in their power to live a happy, productive, so-called perfect life, it just doesn't happen-this isn't negativity-this is reality PERIOD. We don't have to brood about what may be, but we have to plan-if we don't, then we can choose or not, to suffer the consequences.
I am 32, my periods were always regular and just dandy-when I started these meds, I gained weight, and my periods went amuck-that pisses me off. Yes, female hormones have a TREMENDOUS amout of influence on us women and I am really getting sick of the docs out there that don't address that. Some of yours may-but I had 2 laparoscopies, endometriosis, and the doc hit an artery, and I almost died. Do any of you think that I had any control over that? Nope I don't feel I did.
Meds, controversy, some docs' ignorance, life, hormones, weight, fuel...........and all that jazz...............................................................................................................................................> Dear Y'all,
> Well, hope I can put some of my experience to good use. I'm probably BP-II rather than major depressive disorder as I thought for 25 years. Have had classic hypomanic symptoms that were a giveaway, but the clearest symptoms have been my non-responsiveness to SSRI's. There's a great book called "Why your depression isn't getting better" that clued me into why SSRI's made things worse for me and why I needed a mood stabilizer. Hence, lithium.
>
> It has been a very mild benign drug. I'm only taking 600mg vs the usual 1200mg 'therapeutic window dose'. The only noticeable side effects were some hand tremors at the beginning. More disturbing was the negative thyroid effects. I was already hypothyroid and that can cause depression, weight gain, muscle pain in it's own right. But lithium competes with thyroxin at the receptor site and can cause exacerbation of hypothyroidism. I've been taking more thyroid med and it's been helping, but I worry about long-term problems.
>
> Even so, without lithium I start to disintegrate. I'm currently on 600mg lithium, 50mg lamictal, 75mg nortriptyline and occassional valium for stress and ambien for sleep. This seems to be the best cocktail I've been on in 20 years. The main side effect of nortriptyline is dry mouth, but it encourages me to drink more water. It also can cause weight gain, but I've been on so many porky drugs that I just gave in and realized that without exercise you just get fat, no matter what you're taking. So now I'm feeling better and exercising and getting buff in the process. For whatever reason, nortriptyline has worked better than any other SSRI I've been on. It feels more natural and seems to work on all levels instead of just serotonin.
>
> Another thing to keep in mind is the role of reproductive hormones. Depending on what phase of life you're at, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone play a HUGE role in all this stuff. Not nearly enough attention is paid to this very crucial topic. Hormones seem to be the master key to so many health and mood issues and doctors just aren't paying attention. You have to do your own research and put the pieces together because docs are so specialized they don't see the connections between their specialized fields.
>
> I also have to say that these past two years of being without work, my Mother dying rather tragically, being very sick physically and mentally, and coming to terms with Life in all it's grand design has caused me to wake up in so many ways and pay attention to Right Now and give up brooding about what may be. All that fretting takes energy away from positive action.
>
> Meds keep my overactive imagination in line, but the rest is truly up to me and I believe I'm getting it at last. I need help, but it truly is up to me. And yes, diet is very important. What would make you think otherwise? You put shitty fuel in a car and it clogs up and breaks down. The only thing we really have any control over in this life is what we choose to put into our bodies. Garbage in, garbage out. Don't get me started on how that whole subject is totally ignored by the medical profession. - Barbara
Posted by Krissy P on March 20, 2003, at 0:41:39
In reply to Re: Lamictal-What's high dosage??, posted by BarbaraCat on March 19, 2003, at 15:14:17
Why does it always have to be add this, add that, to make a med work?? Adding so much is toxic. A med is solely used alone to supposedly work on the specific problem they manufacturer it for. Such poisons to our system, I'd rather die at the moment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you want to increase, are you not getting good antidepressant results from lamictal? I've heard of people going up to 400mg and above, but perhaps you need to add another class of med if you're not quite getting there.
Posted by Tabitha on March 20, 2003, at 0:45:48
In reply to Meds and all that jazz, posted by BarbaraCat on March 19, 2003, at 23:33:36
BarbaraCat, thanks for sharing all that experience and wisdom. One question, what do you think the lamictal is doing for you? You've got the lithium which is your mood stabiliser, the nortryptiline which is your AD, and I understand the valium and ambien are for anxiety and sleep. What is left for the lamictal to do? I ask because I'm trying to understand how lamictal is used for bipolar II.
Posted by LUKA62 on March 20, 2003, at 1:16:14
In reply to Lamictil is NOT a mood stabilizer » Krissy P, posted by BarbaraCat on March 18, 2003, at 15:33:44
> Krissy,
> I have to agree with Ron and Maximus here. You are not, I repeat not, on a mood stabilizer. Lamictal is tossed into that category because of it's anti-epileptic profile but it doesn't work well enough if you need something different. I know this well because I've been in a very similar place to you. I'm fine at 50mg lamictal and if I start increasing I get depressed. I'm on a tricyclic after being on all the SSRI's and SNRI's in the book. The only thing that makes everything else tie together and work is lithium. Without lithium, NOTHING works. Lithium alone does not work but it is a necessary part of my brew.
>
>
LAMICTAL Is in fact For Me a very effective medication that has stabilized my moods for the first time in 20 years!! I've been on all the traditional mood stabilizers, newer meds when available and nothing was consistently effective.
Lithium was the first I was put on initially back in the mid-80's, and it was not helpful; tried others, Depakote, etc. and combinations; docs revisited some hoping it would be helpful. I was put on Lamictal 1 1/2yrs ago, staying on Neurontin. (I also take Nardil...which has been my best bet for depression.) I went off the Neurontin 9months ago. I have not been this stable ever before until the Lamictal. My therapist agrees.
I currently take 50mg 2x/day. Unfortunately, it seems to be the cause of some very troublesome GI problems that I never had before. I just had to put up with it because the trade-off seemed worth it. But 3 months ago when my doc increased the dose(doubling it) I immediately started having severe abdominal and chest pain, as well as terrible dental probs, we went back to previous dose. Since then though, I continued to have pain often, and severe; the past week I have had to have 4 diagnostic tests to see if there's something else going on. So far it just shows bad gastritis--doc did a biopsy of stomach...now awaiting results of abd.ultrasound and HIBA scan to check my gallbladder; I kinda hope that's what it has been; otherwise I may need to Stop the Lamictal afterall. I am SOO worried that may be case, because after all these years I just don't want to begin more trial and error games with meds. It's very distressing I am ready to quit; I don't think I can start trying other meds again.
I know Neurontin is also prescribed as a mood stabilizer, but not only did I believe it didn't help, I thought it was causing problems for me. I couldn't convince my old pdoc to take me off; I actually ended up taking myself off it, and now I see a new pdoc. It seems that quite a few of these meds, whether labeled as mood-stabilizers or prescribed as such, effect different people quite differently.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2003, at 12:59:20
In reply to Re: Meds and all that jazz » BarbaraCat, posted by Tabitha on March 20, 2003, at 0:45:48
Tabitha,
I'm not really sure what Lamictal is doing for me right now. When I first started taking it about 6 months ago, it gave me a very nice surge of energy. I was taking it with only lithium and together they seemed to be keeping the depression and mixed states hell at bay. But then Lamictal seemed to stop working and when I increased all I got was anxiety. I could live with it OK, but then in December my Mom died very tragically and the whole shebang (funeral, legal matters, house sale) was very intense and unsettling for me and I went into a massive suicidal depression in Jan-Feb. That's when my pdoc put on nortriptyline 75mg. It brought me back to life, literally. Now the question remains, do I really need Lamictal since it seemed to stop working? Or is it a needed ingredient in my current brew? I tried stopping lithium when my thyroid began to fail and realized within 3 days that I require lithium otherwise I start to fragment.So, I'm going back in April to bury Mom's 'cremains' and complete the dissolution of the estate. I know it's going to be very difficult and I do not want to mess with anything. I'm currently feeling very strong, spiritually and biochemically and feel like 'OK, bring it on'. But I know I'll need some healing afterwards, at which point I'll start reducing Lamictal very very slowly. It may be that I need it, but if I don't, my liver will thank me. I'll keep you posted.
> BarbaraCat, thanks for sharing all that experience and wisdom. One question, what do you think the lamictal is doing for you? You've got the lithium which is your mood stabiliser, the nortryptiline which is your AD, and I understand the valium and ambien are for anxiety and sleep. What is left for the lamictal to do? I ask because I'm trying to understand how lamictal is used for bipolar II.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2003, at 13:12:56
In reply to Add, Add, Add, posted by Krissy P on March 20, 2003, at 0:41:39
I know your frustration with this. No one seems to know why these meds work in the first place, only theories. Just as no one knows what depression, etc., is really caused by. So much of the medication merry go round is hit or miss. From what I read here on this board, it's rare that anyone finds the perfect med the first time, or if they do, the effect poops out. So add another to the pile of pills. Pdocs are frustrated with this as well. Seems the only happy campers are the pharmaceutical companies.
I was lamenting this with my pdoc and wondering why we can't do a SPECT scan or blood test and just zero in on the disfunction. He said that there's nothing so far that's dependable and it's too expensive and inaccurate for insurance companies to foot the bill. But, he said that we're learning so much with the DNA mapping project and the rumor is that in the next few years we'll probably see a DNA test that will be far more accurate. So until then it's like a crap shoot. BTW, milk thistle herb (silymarin) has gotten good press all around for liver support. It's regenerated livers that were being destroyed by mushroom poisoning. We need to consider the hits our livers are taking with all these meds and do what we can to take care of them.
> Why does it always have to be add this, add that, to make a med work?? Adding so much is toxic. A med is solely used alone to supposedly work on the specific problem they manufacturer it for. Such poisons to our system, I'd rather die at the moment.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Why do you want to increase, are you not getting good antidepressant results from lamictal? I've heard of people going up to 400mg and above, but perhaps you need to add another class of med if you're not quite getting there.
>
Posted by Tabitha on March 20, 2003, at 13:45:06
In reply to Re: Meds and all that jazz » Tabitha, posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2003, at 12:59:20
Thanks again. I had hopes for lamictal to replace my SSRIs, but it seems it poops out on everyone. I'll probably try it anyway. I can understand you not wanting to change anything right now. My mom died in '95-- I just passed that anniversary-- it's an enormous thing, coming to terms with that loss. I'll wish you strength for going thru the estate and cremation stuff.
Posted by wcfrench on March 20, 2003, at 14:02:41
In reply to Re: Add, Add, Add » Krissy P, posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2003, at 13:12:56
This has seemed to be the trend with my meds... Add because it's working, subtract because it's not (or it stops) working. The combo fails and we don't know who the culprit is.
I'm on 100mg/2x Lamictal now, having started it about a month ago, and I don't feel the same as when I started it... now I feel a little more depressed, and as if it doesn't work as well. I did stop Depakote a short time before that, do you think I could be suffering withdrawals? It doesn't seem likely... I think sometimes I have mixed states too.. I'll be peaceful, then really anxious/nervous, then OK again. It's very weird, but I'm trying to balance it. Is that mixed states? Thanks for your help to me the young "grasshoppa"
See ya
CharliePS I read "the power of now" and "present moment awareness" and both are really good books to read. Even if you're not in a great position to take them in (as we are at times), they could benefit anyone's current situation. They are also very relaxing, and unlike other books when I'm anxious, I find myself actually seeing these as reprieve.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2003, at 16:13:04
In reply to Re: Add, Add, Subtract, Confuse, Read, posted by wcfrench on March 20, 2003, at 14:02:41
Ah, Young Grasshoppa,
I can only share my own experience, which has been in the making these many years. It's hard to tell what is doing what when one is adding, subtracting multiple meds at a time. This goes for all the vitamins, over the counter stuff we get. It confuses the purity of the experiment. But I have heard that Lamictal may stop working as well as at first - this is the case with me. At first I thought 'oh, I've finally found The Drug' and then it slowly petered out.If you've stopped Depakote, this could certainly be contributing to anxiety. Anxiety is my personal downfall and unchecked stress will always turn into an agitated depression. I take a benzo (valium now, it was lorazepam, then klonopin. They're all pretty much the same.) and it helps to nip a bad stress state in the bud.
Mixed states. Ah, now there is a worthy foe. What is usually referred to as mixed states is a point along the bipolar continuum where mania and depression collide. The usual vanilla symptoms we think of as 'bipolar' are the extremes of high and low. Mania is crazed insomnia extroverted revved up thinking and depression is slow murky sluggish dreary can't give a rip about life. Mixed states is a very frightening combination of the two and can have delusional very scary nightmarish hallucinations, much like a very bad acid trip that goes on and on. Can't sleep, lots of wailing, catastrophic doom and total despair. I got to the point that I couldn't eat anything because I could hear the salad greens screaming on my plate. And oh, to walk past the butcher counter in a supermarket! I collapsed a few times in the aisle sobbing uncontrollably because I was very vividly transported to the slaughterhouse. I felt God had gone insane and we were in the hands of a sick diety. No hope. Very different from extreme anxiety states because of the hallucinatory quality.
That's not to say that all the things I was so supersensitive about were not horrible in their own right, but it was like I had an antenna that was only picking up horror movies, or like all my skin was peeled to expose nerve endings. I'd also get extremely empathetic and even psychic during these times - painfully sensitive in all ways and it wore me down. It's been a cyclical thing since I was 20. It was beginning to cycle more and more frequently and at 50 it was almost a constant state. I don't know many people who have had this form of mood disorder, but Edgar Allen Poe comes to mind. Real nightmare stuff. It's usually a Bipolar I thing since it's so extreme that it doesn't usually fit in with the milder BPII symptoms. For me it had classic schizoprenic qualities, but because it was cyclical, did not fit in with a schizoid dx. But who knows? All I know and am so very grateful for is that I haven't had a single episode like this since starting lithium. I've had severe depression, especially when my Mom was killed in December, but a normal response even though severe. It was thankfully not complicated by the horrific mixed states stuff.
Yes, Power of Now has been my constant companion - books, the tapes, video. I've rediscovered it after forgetting about it for a year. It's the single most helpful philosophy/spiritual teaching that I've encountered. Bless Eckhart Tolle, who had his own Hell to contend with. Now that my chemistry is stable, these teachings are taking root. Cheers. Barbara-San
> This has seemed to be the trend with my meds... Add because it's working, subtract because it's not (or it stops) working. The combo fails and we don't know who the culprit is.
>
> I'm on 100mg/2x Lamictal now, having started it about a month ago, and I don't feel the same as when I started it... now I feel a little more depressed, and as if it doesn't work as well. I did stop Depakote a short time before that, do you think I could be suffering withdrawals? It doesn't seem likely... I think sometimes I have mixed states too.. I'll be peaceful, then really anxious/nervous, then OK again. It's very weird, but I'm trying to balance it. Is that mixed states? Thanks for your help to me the young "grasshoppa"
>
> See ya
> Charlie
>
> PS I read "the power of now" and "present moment awareness" and both are really good books to read. Even if you're not in a great position to take them in (as we are at times), they could benefit anyone's current situation. They are also very relaxing, and unlike other books when I'm anxious, I find myself actually seeing these as reprieve.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2003, at 16:17:43
In reply to Re: Meds and all that jazz » BarbaraCat, posted by Tabitha on March 20, 2003, at 13:45:06
You never know how a med might potentiate the others. Perhaps lamictal alone won't be enough to replace ADs, but it may be the extra ingredient that stabilizes everything for you. I think it's worth a try, Tabitha. At least if nothing happens it's not a difficult med to titrate off from.
Thanks for the good wishes re my Mom. Losing a Mom sure changes alot of things. I feel like I'm finally becoming an adult for the first time at 51. It's very sad but at the same time strangely liberating.
> Thanks again. I had hopes for lamictal to replace my SSRIs, but it seems it poops out on everyone. I'll probably try it anyway. I can understand you not wanting to change anything right now. My mom died in '95-- I just passed that anniversary-- it's an enormous thing, coming to terms with that loss. I'll wish you strength for going thru the estate and cremation stuff.
Posted by wcfrench on March 20, 2003, at 23:16:45
In reply to Re: Meds and all that jazz » Tabitha, posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2003, at 16:17:43
You are great. You are the single most person who has responded to my posts here, and I don't know if you even notice since you probably provide relief to so many people. You will do great, and already are by providing wisdom to so many in desperate search of knowledge to help them against their problems. The people who do the best in life have the most compassion, and feel the deepest.. your life is a true blessing. Like Tolle says, acceptance, not resistance, will help things to pass through us. Respond, don't react. Great stuff.. Good luck, thanks again.
-Charlie
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 21, 2003, at 1:48:44
In reply to Re: BarbaraCat is OK » BarbaraCat, posted by wcfrench on March 20, 2003, at 23:16:45
Dear Charlie,
You've brought tears to my eyes and warmth to my heart. As Eckhart says, every soul who has undergone a great spiritual transformation has also gone through intense suffering and dark night of the soul. It really helps to think that our pain has a deeper wisdom and purpose than we give it credit for! Bless you and keep in touch. - Barbara> You are great. You are the single most person who has responded to my posts here, and I don't know if you even notice since you probably provide relief to so many people. You will do great, and already are by providing wisdom to so many in desperate search of knowledge to help them against their problems. The people who do the best in life have the most compassion, and feel the deepest.. your life is a true blessing. Like Tolle says, acceptance, not resistance, will help things to pass through us. Respond, don't react. Great stuff.. Good luck, thanks again.
>
> -Charlie
Posted by catmint on March 21, 2003, at 1:58:05
In reply to Re: MAXIMUS AND RON.............................., posted by starlight on March 13, 2003, at 15:52:16
Hi,
I started a new thread and wanted to make sure you got this message, could you look for it and read it?
Thanks!!
::Amy
Posted by Msanjelpie on March 26, 2003, at 4:34:21
In reply to Re: Starlight, posted by catmint on March 21, 2003, at 1:58:05
I'm on 200mg Lamictal - 40mg prozac and .5 mg ativan.
Lamictal causes a temporary high when you start taking it that makes you think it's not working when the high goes away after a month. Not true... once the brain gets used to it the extra energy and calm feeling go away, but the pill is still working in keeping things in check...
It was when I added Klonopin to the mix that everything fell apart. Within 2 weeks I was suicidal and anxious and severely depressed. Ceased upon quitting the Klonopin. I have read that Klonopin is one of the worst things a BPII can take. Not sure why they keep prescribing it...
I suggest going off the klonopin and seeing if that allows the lamictal to better do its' job and see if the depression goes away.
I take Klonopin once every 6 weeks or so when I need to crash for 12 hours or more... but I make sure not to double up on it more than 1 day together.... The sleep is SO deep that it interferes with the dreaming process which can exacerbate the depression...
Talk to your doc about it... don't give up on the lamictal until you know for sure it is causing the depression...
Jeannie
Posted by SpreadDaALoha on March 26, 2003, at 6:25:48
In reply to Re: Lamictal - shouldn't cause depression, posted by Msanjelpie on March 26, 2003, at 4:34:21
I feel strongly that klonopin can cause depression and suicidal mood. I saw it happen to someone, and it is frightening to think how one "prescribed" drug can cause so much trouble to someone. I hate that medication for what it did to my friend (but I know it helps people too). Benzos are serious things...
Posted by Krissy P on March 26, 2003, at 10:28:12
In reply to Re: Lamictal - shouldn't cause depression, posted by Msanjelpie on March 26, 2003, at 4:34:21
Hi Jeannie, May I ask you something.
What you state here is how I felt/feel on the Lamictal. I went back on it after being off it for a year. Like the first month, I felt great and then now, I'm going into my 5th week, I believe(I should keep track), and now that 'high' feeling is gone but it still seems to be stabilizing my moods I liked the way you used the statement 'keeping things in check'-that's what I feel like on the Lamictal now.
When you read that Klonopin is one of the worst things a BPII can take-could you share what it all said? or a link where I can read it? My pdoc, as well as several other docs have been trying to wean me off of Klonopin, or they say at least to 1mg instead of 2 or 3.
you make such a great point here about going off the Klonopin to see if the Lamictal does its job better. I am in the middle of finding my personal med cocktail, after trying almost everytihing out there, and just wanted to get some ideas? So, in your opinion, you think Lamictal is a pretty good med, and for what specifically? I have always said it is my wonder med because it helped balance my moods beautifully, and very little weight gain, if any, from it. Now, Klonopin on the other hand, I gained a few, it's got the addiction potential, and I sometimes find myself taking more as PRN. But all in all, it is a wonderful benzo IMO.
What do you think about all this?
Thanks for such a great post, Kristen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm on 200mg Lamictal - 40mg prozac and .5 mg ativan.
Lamictal causes a temporary high when you start taking it that makes you think it's not working when the high goes away after a month. Not true... once the brain gets used to it the extra energy and calm feeling go away, but the pill is still working in keeping things in check...
It was when I added Klonopin to the mix that everything fell apart. Within 2 weeks I was suicidal and anxious and severely depressed. Ceased upon quitting the Klonopin. I have read that Klonopin is one of the worst things a BPII can take. Not sure why they keep prescribing it...I suggest going off the klonopin and seeing if that allows the lamictal to better do its' job and see if the depression goes away.
I take Klonopin once every 6 weeks or so when I need to crash for 12 hours or more... but I make sure not to double up on it more than 1 day together.... The sleep is SO deep that it interferes with the dreaming process which can exacerbate the depression...
Talk to your doc about it... don't give up on the lamictal until you know for sure it is causing the depression...
Jeannie
Posted by Ponder on March 28, 2003, at 23:44:10
In reply to Meds and all that jazz, posted by BarbaraCat on March 19, 2003, at 23:33:36
Hello BarbaraCat, Krissy and others on this thread!
I'd like to address the frustrating topic of meds being added, results being equivocal, other things being added, and nothing ever being substracted. Anyone else have this problem? Pretty soon I find myself on a bunch of things and wondering if any of them are actually helping. I do better for a while then get bad again and wonder why I'm taking 4 different meds and 6 different supplements and light therapy and psychotherapy and here I am depressed again. Can't help but wonder if the illness just cycles (it IS Bipolar II) and I would have felt exactly the same without all this stuff. But I become afraid to stop taking it because I think, gosh, maybe it could be way worse than this and this, lord knows, is bad enough. So, there you go. And are p-docs much help? Well, not in my experience. They seem to sit there poised with pen and Rx pad waiting for me to tell them what to prescribe.
Like many people on the board, I am sometimes tempted to wean off of all pharamceuticals and try massive doses of exercise, yoga, meditation, whatever. How do we go about answering the question..are these pills really doing any good?
Posted by PamJeanBrunot on March 28, 2003, at 23:54:52
In reply to Re: Lamictal - shouldn't cause depression, posted by Msanjelpie on March 26, 2003, at 4:34:21
Hi, I'm new here and saw this about Lamictal. I'm on it and my ankles are swollen. Has this happened to anyone? I got a high when I strated it, but it seemed to make me depressed now. My doctor says that a bipolar should not be on an AD.
what do you think?
Pam
> I'm on 200mg Lamictal - 40mg prozac and .5 mg ativan.
>
> Lamictal causes a temporary high when you start taking it that makes you think it's not working when the high goes away after a month. Not true... once the brain gets used to it the extra energy and calm feeling go away, but the pill is still working in keeping things in check...
>
> It was when I added Klonopin to the mix that everything fell apart. Within 2 weeks I was suicidal and anxious and severely depressed. Ceased upon quitting the Klonopin. I have read that Klonopin is one of the worst things a BPII can take. Not sure why they keep prescribing it...
>
> I suggest going off the klonopin and seeing if that allows the lamictal to better do its' job and see if the depression goes away.
>
> I take Klonopin once every 6 weeks or so when I need to crash for 12 hours or more... but I make sure not to double up on it more than 1 day together.... The sleep is SO deep that it interferes with the dreaming process which can exacerbate the depression...
>
> Talk to your doc about it... don't give up on the lamictal until you know for sure it is causing the depression...
>
> Jeannie
Posted by catmint on March 29, 2003, at 2:26:46
In reply to Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping, posted by Ponder on March 28, 2003, at 23:44:10
> Hello BarbaraCat, Krissy and others on this thread!
>
> I'd like to address the frustrating topic of meds being added, results being equivocal, other things being added, and nothing ever being substracted. Anyone else have this problem? Pretty soon I find myself on a bunch of things and wondering if any of them are actually helping. I do better for a while then get bad again and wonder why I'm taking 4 different meds and 6 different supplements and light therapy and psychotherapy and here I am depressed again. Can't help but wonder if the illness just cycles (it IS Bipolar II) and I would have felt exactly the same without all this stuff. But I become afraid to stop taking it because I think, gosh, maybe it could be way worse than this and this, lord knows, is bad enough. So, there you go. And are p-docs much help? Well, not in my experience. They seem to sit there poised with pen and Rx pad waiting for me to tell them what to prescribe.
>
> Like many people on the board, I am sometimes tempted to wean off of all pharamceuticals and try massive doses of exercise, yoga, meditation, whatever. How do we go about answering the question..are these pills really doing any good?
>
>Ponder,
My sentiments exactly! I am on Lamictal for BPII, and still continue to cycle, and I ask myself the same thing, am I really better on meds? I also do massive amounts of yoga and exercise, some meditation, which are truly life savers and I would have to say I am doing much better, but my gosh, it is so hard feeling so intensely all the time!!
My pdoc is the same way, ready to prescribe what I tell him I think I need (this last time it was Trileptal added to the Lam, but now I am reconsidering). Of course benzos are out of the question!
I am frustrated as heck having this illness, but we must remember that not only is there two things going on here, depression and mania, but also our distinct personalities like how stubborn we are, or how stuck we are in the past, what disgust us, and what angers us.
For all that there is psychotherapy, but ya know, you have to find a good one, and who can afford it nowadays?
My pdoc says that most bipolars do better on meds because the older we get, the worse the cycles become, but do I believe him?
I have been known to be non-compliant and last summer I thought I was cured! LOL. This fall, I decided to go back on meds, and now it is back to dealing with side effects, worrying that Lamictal might not be that great as monotherapy, and wondering if I can keep my relationships healthy.
I'm trying to meditate more regularly, which keeps me IN THE MOMENT (which is all there really is).
Ponder, thanks for your post, take care and hope to hear from you again,
and now.. I ponder... do we really exist??
::Amy
Posted by Barbara Cat on March 29, 2003, at 10:36:12
In reply to Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping, posted by Ponder on March 28, 2003, at 23:44:10
Hi All,
I'm with you in this frustration. I went through a time recently really believing I could do this thing alone or with drastically reduced meds. Lots of yoga, meditation, eating healthy, reading how to say 'bye' to your mood disorder. It felt shakey all the time but I was doing it until a major incident hit (my mom's death). Then I went into the abyss very badly, even though on lithium and lamictal. Not very high doses, but enough thus far.Since starting nortriptyline in February I'm doing well. I don't like the side effects, especially combined with lithium - very dry mouth, tremors, constipation. I keep thinking that when life gets more stable I'll try going it alone again. Hah! think again. Life is rarely stable and doesn't seem like it's going to get any better with all the insanity out there. I have a dream that I'll learn enough about how to just be with it, to have my inner resources strong enough to not affect my center. Until knowing how to do it better, I apparently need my chemistry tweaked. BTW, I personally do not believe lamictal is enough to deal with bipolar depression, even when combined with lithium, especially alone. I guess it depends on the dose, but like many of you, at higher doses I felt more anxious and depressed. The most helpful for me has been adding nortrip. It's not an SSRI at least.
Barbara
Posted by Ron Hill on March 29, 2003, at 13:03:10
In reply to Re: Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping » Ponder, posted by catmint on March 29, 2003, at 2:26:46
Hi Amy,
> My pdoc is the same way, ready to prescribe what I tell him I think I need (this last time it was Trileptal added to the Lam, but now I am reconsidering).
I know that it is still early in your Trileptal trial, but I'm curious. What are your first impressions of this medication? Specifically:
How does it feel in your brain?
How much are you currently taking?
Are there any side effects?
Does it reduce irritability?
Do you feel a mood stabilizing effect?
Does it seem to have any effect (positive or negative) on the depressive side of the equation?
Thanks Amy. As always, I offer you my best regards.
-- Ron
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