![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by anaya on December 28, 2001, at 23:33:09
I have been ardently researching for many days hoping to unlock the secrets of my mind/personality and discover the perfect med for me.
I am new to this whole world but easily educated.I arrived here because I was disturbed by the sudden and seemingly strong side effects of Effexor XR which I experienced 4 hours after a 19mg dose (1/2 of 37.5).
I felt altered, almost as if I had taken a low dose of MDMA. I had a restless nights sleep which probably made me feel even more depressed the next day.
On day 2 of 19mg, I was twitching, yawning, and felt drugged. I did not feel like I was in the same reality as my family. My doc said to take 1/4 of 37.5mg (approximately 9g) and that side effects would go away in a few days.
Due to holidays and my discomfort, I opted out and have not retried venlafaxine or anything else yet. And I NEED to get on something ASAP.
My life is on extreme hold right now and it is making me even more depressed. I am a passionate person (probably creates some of the emotional probs), and I know could have greater life quality.
So finally, after years of resisting pharmaceuticals and trying St. John's Wort (worked well at first), nutrition, and Yoga (which I will never give up), I am ready and excited for this.So here's my concerns and basics:
1) DYSTHYMIA. Probably for 10+ years. Plus PMS/PME/PMT Definitely become more debilitating. Low energy/fogginess though I can do yoga, dance, workout sometimes.
2) AMOTIVATION/NO DIRECTION. Some LOW SELF-ESTEEM.
I am very bright, educated, talented, and attractive. But I have not channeled my energies nor do I feel clear or compelled to do so. This makes me very depressed/ashamed.
3)POSSIBLE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY.
I fit at least 4 of the criteria, though I recognize that it is easy to latch on to labels.
4) SENSITIVE
Physically and emotionally. Worry that side effects knock me out more than most people.I realize we are all unique chemically and as to our preferences/tolerances.
I want energy boost, but worry about too much activation and insomnia (I already sleep poorly (also contributing to depression)
I want anti-anxiety effect but don't want to be too sedated.
I also DO NOT want to gain weight. I'm fit, I love it.
I feel like I have middle of the road blahs and don't want to be sent to extremes. And I don't want to be numbed out either (based on brief Prozac experience) I'd just like to switch to middle of the road bliss instead.Anyway, that's my story (today). I am interested in what I read here regarding Adrafanil perhaps mixed with SSRI. And willing but reluctant to try PROZAC again. I am hoping to start a good med next week.
If you have any feedback, I welcome it graciously. Thank you for all your wisdom and sharing.
Posted by ST on December 29, 2001, at 1:58:01
In reply to Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP, posted by anaya on December 28, 2001, at 23:33:09
Hi- you responded to my post about Effexor XR and it is greatly appreciated.
I seem to be very sensitive to meds as well. I had a good response to Serzone with almost no side effects in the beginning and no side effects upon withdrawal. Serzone supposedly works closely to how Effexor does, but obviously without the debilitating side effects. At least for me. I went off of it because I just couldn't get over that last hump of depression in my way. (Celexa was fabulous for this but I gained 30 lbs, so now I'm on Effexor)
I also take 300 mg. of Wellbutrin. I seem to remember a few side effects in the beginning, but they wore off quickly. It has been well tolerated. It's usually used in conjunction with another medication. You might want to ask your doc about a cocktail of SSRI and a dopamine reuptake inhibitor (Wellbutrin).
-Sarah
Posted by sid on December 29, 2001, at 12:09:16
In reply to Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP, posted by anaya on December 28, 2001, at 23:33:09
I also have chronic depression and major PMS (suicidal 3 days a month if I'm not on the pill), and I've been using 37.5mg Effexor for a month now with success. I was also very sensitive to it initially (much like you - see my other post to you above), but it passed after about a week. Now I am fine. My doc decided to keep me on 37.5mg for another month because I am so sensitive to it, and because so far, it's made me feel more energized and more social (I have anxiety also). Perhaps you should give it another chance, in XR form? Just make sure you don't drive and don't have much to do in the first few days, until the major side effects pass.
> I have been ardently researching for many days hoping to unlock the secrets of my mind/personality and discover the perfect med for me.
> I am new to this whole world but easily educated.
>
> I arrived here because I was disturbed by the sudden and seemingly strong side effects of Effexor XR which I experienced 4 hours after a 19mg dose (1/2 of 37.5).
> I felt altered, almost as if I had taken a low dose of MDMA. I had a restless nights sleep which probably made me feel even more depressed the next day.
> On day 2 of 19mg, I was twitching, yawning, and felt drugged. I did not feel like I was in the same reality as my family. My doc said to take 1/4 of 37.5mg (approximately 9g) and that side effects would go away in a few days.
> Due to holidays and my discomfort, I opted out and have not retried venlafaxine or anything else yet. And I NEED to get on something ASAP.
> My life is on extreme hold right now and it is making me even more depressed. I am a passionate person (probably creates some of the emotional probs), and I know could have greater life quality.
> So finally, after years of resisting pharmaceuticals and trying St. John's Wort (worked well at first), nutrition, and Yoga (which I will never give up), I am ready and excited for this.
>
> So here's my concerns and basics:
>
> 1) DYSTHYMIA. Probably for 10+ years. Plus PMS/PME/PMT Definitely become more debilitating. Low energy/fogginess though I can do yoga, dance, workout sometimes.
> 2) AMOTIVATION/NO DIRECTION. Some LOW SELF-ESTEEM.
> I am very bright, educated, talented, and attractive. But I have not channeled my energies nor do I feel clear or compelled to do so. This makes me very depressed/ashamed.
> 3)POSSIBLE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY.
> I fit at least 4 of the criteria, though I recognize that it is easy to latch on to labels.
> 4) SENSITIVE
> Physically and emotionally. Worry that side effects knock me out more than most people.
>
> I realize we are all unique chemically and as to our preferences/tolerances.
> I want energy boost, but worry about too much activation and insomnia (I already sleep poorly (also contributing to depression)
> I want anti-anxiety effect but don't want to be too sedated.
> I also DO NOT want to gain weight. I'm fit, I love it.
> I feel like I have middle of the road blahs and don't want to be sent to extremes. And I don't want to be numbed out either (based on brief Prozac experience) I'd just like to switch to middle of the road bliss instead.
>
> Anyway, that's my story (today). I am interested in what I read here regarding Adrafanil perhaps mixed with SSRI. And willing but reluctant to try PROZAC again. I am hoping to start a good med next week.
> If you have any feedback, I welcome it graciously. Thank you for all your wisdom and sharing.
Posted by sid on December 29, 2001, at 12:12:17
In reply to Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP, posted by anaya on December 28, 2001, at 23:33:09
Also, there seems to be less weight gain problems with Effexor and Effexor XR, even weight loss at times (my experience so far). One of the side effects is loss of appetite. My depression caused me to eat and sleep too much, and the Effexor XR helps correct that in my case. I eat less, sleep less and have more energy for exercise. Every case is different, but I would not rule it out immediately if I were you.
> I have been ardently researching for many days hoping to unlock the secrets of my mind/personality and discover the perfect med for me.
> I am new to this whole world but easily educated.
>
> I arrived here because I was disturbed by the sudden and seemingly strong side effects of Effexor XR which I experienced 4 hours after a 19mg dose (1/2 of 37.5).
> I felt altered, almost as if I had taken a low dose of MDMA. I had a restless nights sleep which probably made me feel even more depressed the next day.
> On day 2 of 19mg, I was twitching, yawning, and felt drugged. I did not feel like I was in the same reality as my family. My doc said to take 1/4 of 37.5mg (approximately 9g) and that side effects would go away in a few days.
> Due to holidays and my discomfort, I opted out and have not retried venlafaxine or anything else yet. And I NEED to get on something ASAP.
> My life is on extreme hold right now and it is making me even more depressed. I am a passionate person (probably creates some of the emotional probs), and I know could have greater life quality.
> So finally, after years of resisting pharmaceuticals and trying St. John's Wort (worked well at first), nutrition, and Yoga (which I will never give up), I am ready and excited for this.
>
> So here's my concerns and basics:
>
> 1) DYSTHYMIA. Probably for 10+ years. Plus PMS/PME/PMT Definitely become more debilitating. Low energy/fogginess though I can do yoga, dance, workout sometimes.
> 2) AMOTIVATION/NO DIRECTION. Some LOW SELF-ESTEEM.
> I am very bright, educated, talented, and attractive. But I have not channeled my energies nor do I feel clear or compelled to do so. This makes me very depressed/ashamed.
> 3)POSSIBLE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY.
> I fit at least 4 of the criteria, though I recognize that it is easy to latch on to labels.
> 4) SENSITIVE
> Physically and emotionally. Worry that side effects knock me out more than most people.
>
> I realize we are all unique chemically and as to our preferences/tolerances.
> I want energy boost, but worry about too much activation and insomnia (I already sleep poorly (also contributing to depression)
> I want anti-anxiety effect but don't want to be too sedated.
> I also DO NOT want to gain weight. I'm fit, I love it.
> I feel like I have middle of the road blahs and don't want to be sent to extremes. And I don't want to be numbed out either (based on brief Prozac experience) I'd just like to switch to middle of the road bliss instead.
>
> Anyway, that's my story (today). I am interested in what I read here regarding Adrafanil perhaps mixed with SSRI. And willing but reluctant to try PROZAC again. I am hoping to start a good med next week.
> If you have any feedback, I welcome it graciously. Thank you for all your wisdom and sharing.
Posted by Guinnee Pig on December 29, 2001, at 13:46:36
In reply to Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP, posted by anaya on December 28, 2001, at 23:33:09
One word.....Serzone....... :)
Posted by sid on December 29, 2001, at 22:17:09
In reply to Re: Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP, posted by Guinnee Pig on December 29, 2001, at 13:46:36
Why Serzone? I am also interested in knowing more. I've only tried Effexor XR so far, but if it poops out I'd like to know what it could be replaced with... and why.
> One word.....Serzone....... :)
Posted by jimmygold70 on December 30, 2001, at 11:24:00
In reply to Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP, posted by anaya on December 28, 2001, at 23:33:09
Based on your clinical picture, I would try the multi-med approach to BPD. I am basing my opinion on the latest research for BPD, so you should give it a try.
1) SSRI - high dose, no matter whether it is Prozac, Paxil, Celexa... I perosnally like Paxil, it works better for anxiety.
2) Low dose Risperdal (i.e up to 2mg) or Zyprexa (5mg). Works great for hypersensitivity when combined with a SSRI. You'll feel a great difference, I promise.
3) Consider adding lithium to the cocktail. It will take out of the dysthymia rather quickly when combined with SSRI. Depakote is also an option, especially if you're very impulsive with rapidly changing moods.My 2 cents,
Jimmy> 1) DYSTHYMIA. Probably for 10+ years. Plus PMS/PME/PMT Definitely become more debilitating. Low energy/fogginess though I can do yoga, dance, workout sometimes.
> 2) AMOTIVATION/NO DIRECTION. Some LOW SELF-ESTEEM.
> I am very bright, educated, talented, and attractive. But I have not channeled my energies nor do I feel clear or compelled to do so. This makes me very depressed/ashamed.
> 3)POSSIBLE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY.
> I fit at least 4 of the criteria, though I recognize that it is easy to latch on to labels.
> 4) SENSITIVE
> Physically and emotionally. Worry that side effects knock me out more than most people.
>
> I realize we are all unique chemically and as to our preferences/tolerances.
> I want energy boost, but worry about too much activation and insomnia (I already sleep poorly (also contributing to depression)
> I want anti-anxiety effect but don't want to be too sedated.
> I also DO NOT want to gain weight. I'm fit, I love it.
> I feel like I have middle of the road blahs and don't want to be sent to extremes. And I don't want to be numbed out either (based on brief Prozac experience) I'd just like to switch to middle of the road bliss instead.
>
> Anyway, that's my story (today). I am interested in what I read here regarding Adrafanil perhaps mixed with SSRI. And willing but reluctant to try PROZAC again. I am hoping to start a good med next week.
> If you have any feedback, I welcome it graciously. Thank you for all your wisdom and sharing.
Posted by anaya on December 30, 2001, at 22:39:01
In reply to Re: Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP » anaya, posted by sid on December 29, 2001, at 12:12:17
Sid, I haven't ruled out effexor xr (I WAS trying the XR), but will keep it in mind for future. I read that serzone and effexor xr can possibly make a good combo for various reasons which can be found on these archives. And it seems the serzone could help with the insomnia probs of effexor that deterred me (I already pop chinese herbs or valerian most nights).
Anyway, I think what I am learning is that this takes patience and attention.
I am leaning towards Serzone right now, as it seems like a gentle first step with potentially less side effects. It worked for my dad for over a year, and for better or worse, I seem to have inherited his chemistry.
I have this nagging suspicion, though, that PROZAC would probably be more reliably effective. However, when I took it 3 years ago (for 1 month), I felt less depressed, but numbed out. No lows, but no highs either (a bummer for a passionate dramatist).
We'll see, if Serzone doesn't quite do it, then perhaps an augment with Prozac.
And definitely lots of self observation. Maybe I'll finally keep that "tides" chart.
thanks.
anaya
Posted by sid on December 31, 2001, at 8:33:34
In reply to Re: Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP, posted by anaya on December 30, 2001, at 22:39:01
Posted by jimmygold70 on January 1, 2002, at 2:17:27
In reply to Re: Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP, posted by anaya on December 30, 2001, at 22:39:01
You should consider very seriously coming back too an SSRI and adding Zyprexa at night that will help you sleep. Remeron+Zyprexa would be a great combination for you as well, with no 'numbing'.
Jimmy
> Sid, I haven't ruled out effexor xr (I WAS trying the XR), but will keep it in mind for future. I read that serzone and effexor xr can possibly make a good combo for various reasons which can be found on these archives. And it seems the serzone could help with the insomnia probs of effexor that deterred me (I already pop chinese herbs or valerian most nights).
> Anyway, I think what I am learning is that this takes patience and attention.
> I am leaning towards Serzone right now, as it seems like a gentle first step with potentially less side effects. It worked for my dad for over a year, and for better or worse, I seem to have inherited his chemistry.
> I have this nagging suspicion, though, that PROZAC would probably be more reliably effective. However, when I took it 3 years ago (for 1 month), I felt less depressed, but numbed out. No lows, but no highs either (a bummer for a passionate dramatist).
> We'll see, if Serzone doesn't quite do it, then perhaps an augment with Prozac.
> And definitely lots of self observation. Maybe I'll finally keep that "tides" chart.
> thanks.
> anaya
Posted by anaya on January 2, 2002, at 13:25:09
In reply to Re: Sensitive to Effexor, Dysthymic, Need Meds...HELP » anaya, posted by jimmygold70 on January 1, 2002, at 2:17:27
I feel so confused. I thought I knew what I wanted to do (Serzone), but here I sit, still looking at this web site and putting off calling my doctor. Ahh.
I would like to try and SSRI, but worry about weight gain and feeling numbed out.
I suppose the indecisiveness is another symptom of BPD and depression?anaya
> You should consider very seriously coming back too an SSRI and adding Zyprexa at night that will help you sleep. Remeron+Zyprexa would be a great combination for you as well, with no 'numbing'.
>
> Jimmy
>
> > Sid, I haven't ruled out effexor xr (I WAS trying the XR), but will keep it in mind for future. I read that serzone and effexor xr can possibly make a good combo for various reasons which can be found on these archives. And it seems the serzone could help with the insomnia probs of effexor that deterred me (I already pop chinese herbs or valerian most nights).
> > Anyway, I think what I am learning is that this takes patience and attention.
> > I am leaning towards Serzone right now, as it seems like a gentle first step with potentially less side effects. It worked for my dad for over a year, and for better or worse, I seem to have inherited his chemistry.
> > I have this nagging suspicion, though, that PROZAC would probably be more reliably effective. However, when I took it 3 years ago (for 1 month), I felt less depressed, but numbed out. No lows, but no highs either (a bummer for a passionate dramatist).
> > We'll see, if Serzone doesn't quite do it, then perhaps an augment with Prozac.
> > And definitely lots of self observation. Maybe I'll finally keep that "tides" chart.
> > thanks.
> > anayad
Posted by sid on January 2, 2002, at 13:28:38
In reply to Still confused » jimmygold70, posted by anaya on January 2, 2002, at 13:25:09
Yes indecisiveness is a symptom...
Why don't you call your doctor and discuss it all with him/her ? If anyone can help you with this decision it's your doctor. COllect the info as clearly as possible in order to be able to discuss it, and make an appointment.> I feel so confused. I thought I knew what I wanted to do (Serzone), but here I sit, still looking at this web site and putting off calling my doctor. Ahh.
> I would like to try and SSRI, but worry about weight gain and feeling numbed out.
> I suppose the indecisiveness is another symptom of BPD and depression?
>
> anaya
>
> > You should consider very seriously coming back too an SSRI and adding Zyprexa at night that will help you sleep. Remeron+Zyprexa would be a great combination for you as well, with no 'numbing'.
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > > Sid, I haven't ruled out effexor xr (I WAS trying the XR), but will keep it in mind for future. I read that serzone and effexor xr can possibly make a good combo for various reasons which can be found on these archives. And it seems the serzone could help with the insomnia probs of effexor that deterred me (I already pop chinese herbs or valerian most nights).
> > > Anyway, I think what I am learning is that this takes patience and attention.
> > > I am leaning towards Serzone right now, as it seems like a gentle first step with potentially less side effects. It worked for my dad for over a year, and for better or worse, I seem to have inherited his chemistry.
> > > I have this nagging suspicion, though, that PROZAC would probably be more reliably effective. However, when I took it 3 years ago (for 1 month), I felt less depressed, but numbed out. No lows, but no highs either (a bummer for a passionate dramatist).
> > > We'll see, if Serzone doesn't quite do it, then perhaps an augment with Prozac.
> > > And definitely lots of self observation. Maybe I'll finally keep that "tides" chart.
> > > thanks.
> > > anaya
>
> d
Posted by jimmygold70 on January 3, 2002, at 15:02:53
In reply to Still confused » jimmygold70, posted by anaya on January 2, 2002, at 13:25:09
Listen, all you need is to read a good book or article about BPD (Borderline Perosnality).
Posted by anaya on January 3, 2002, at 21:38:13
In reply to Re: Still confused, posted by jimmygold70 on January 3, 2002, at 15:02:53
Jimmy, you are a gem.
Thanks for for the download nice and slow.
My mind is amuck racing right now with regrets, irritation, and self-loathing. (PMS, disappointing acting class I drove an hour for, miss California, regrets, boredom) Right now I want to move to NYC, and I have a taste for a breakdown if only someone were awake.
I WANT MEDICATION SOON! Get the picture?I will take your advice on the books. Already read some good articles and may take a class on personality psychology.
And I am in the process of locating a psychiatrist who deals with BPD. Unfortunately the closest psychiatrists are 2 hours away. I'm in the "boonies" back in the nest as some cackling woman said to me today. I wanted to spit on her.My doctor (regular physician) told me that because I am so sensitive and intolerant of side effects, she wants me on a high dose of St. John's Wort for the dysthymia. I wanted to cry. Maybe I'll just take the effexor after all.
I appreciate your thoughts, and look forward to a real p-doc soon. Hopefully I can find one with experience, but I have my doubts. Perhaps I need to move to NYC to get good help. The idea now is that my folks help me out while I am dealing with my mental health. One step at a time, I guess. But I may be suffering unnecessarily here.
chaos or creativity?
anaya
> Listen, all you need is to read a good book or article about BPD (Borderline Perosnality).
>
> First, get into amazon.com and order 'Borderline Personality Disorder - A Clinical Guide' by Gunderson, 2001. It's pretty costy but worth every buck you pay for it.
>
> Now, if you have access to a library (academic-medical one), get yourself "The psychiatic clinics of north america - Borderline Personality Disorder" - March 2000 issue.
>
> > I feel so confused. I thought I knew what I wanted to do (Serzone), but here I sit, still looking at this web site and putting off calling my doctor. Ahh.
>
> I don't say Serzone is a bad option at all. It's a good alternative to SSRIs. You can try that in the higher doses, but don't forget to add low-dose antypsychotic such as Risperdal or Zyprexa. The latter might give you some weight gain, but it's worth the try.
>
> > I would like to try and SSRI, but worry about weight gain and feeling numbed out.
> > I suppose the indecisiveness is another symptom of BPD and depression?
>
> Ye, Serzone will not make you fill numbed out. SSRIs do make some people numbed out. Did you feel that ? some do. I just say they're better studied for BPD. But Serzone at 300-400mg will do as well, with many side effect though, I warn you.
>
> Indecicisiveness is a symptom of depression...
>
>
>
> > > > Sid, I haven't ruled out effexor xr (I WAS trying the XR), but will keep it in mind for future. I read that serzone and effexor xr can possibly make a good combo for various reasons which can be found on these archives.
>
> Try one AD at first with an antipsychotic. Effexor is good as well, another option for you (in 150mg).
>
> > > > Anyway, I think what I am learning is that this takes patience and attention.
>
> Sure it does.
>
> effective. However, when I took it 3 years ago (for 1 month), I felt less depressed, but numbed out. No lows, but no highs either (a bummer for a passionate dramatist).
>
> OK, so go for serzone 300-400mg or Effexor 150mg + Antypsychotic, I STRESS.
>
> > > > We'll see, if Serzone doesn't quite do it, then perhaps an augment with Prozac.
>
> Not a good combo. If serzone dosn't help, try Effexor. If Effexor doesn't help (compined with an Antipsychotic), try remeron or add lithium to the cocktail.
>
> > > > And definitely lots of self observation. Maybe I'll finally keep that "tides" chart.
> > > > thanks.
> > > > anaya
>
> I you got yourself a PDoc with experience with BPD, that would be your best bet !!!
>
> Jimmy////
Posted by jimmygold70 on January 4, 2002, at 7:59:18
In reply to Still confused and on St. John's Wort » jimmygold70, posted by anaya on January 3, 2002, at 21:38:13
> Jimmy, you are a gem.
Thanks...
> Thanks for for the download nice and slow.
> My mind is amuck racing right now with regrets, irritation, and self-loathing. (PMS, disappointing acting class I drove an hour for, miss California, regrets, boredom) Right now I want to move to NYC, and I have a taste for a breakdown if only someone were awake.
> I WANT MEDICATION SOON! Get the picture?
>
> I will take your advice on the books. Already read some good articles and may take a class on personality psychology.
> And I am in the process of locating a psychiatrist who deals with BPD. Unfortunately the closest psychiatrists are 2 hours away. I'm in the "boonies" back in the nest as some cackling woman said to me today. I wanted to spit on her.It is worth the drive... (-:
> My doctor (regular physician) told me that because I am so sensitive and intolerant of side effects, she wants me on a high dose of St. John's Wort for the dysthymia. I wanted to cry. Maybe I'll just take the effexor after all.St. John's wort for you is like treating fire with a cup of water. Ask him for Serzone or Effexor + Low dose antipsychotic I'm sure you'll be able to tolerate.
Look at these URLs: (and show them to your GP!)
http://www.tnp.com/encyclopedia/substanceprint/89/
http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/28/st_johns_wort.htm
> I appreciate your thoughts, and look forward to a real p-doc soon. Hopefully I can find one with experience, but I have my doubts. Perhaps I need to move to NYC to get good help. The idea now is that my folks help me out while I am dealing with my mental health. One step at a time, I guess. But I may be suffering unnecessarily here.
>
> chaos or creativity?
>
> anaya
>
Chaos brings creatvity...Hugs !
Jimmt
Posted by sid on January 4, 2002, at 11:55:30
In reply to Still confused and on St. John's Wort » jimmygold70, posted by anaya on January 3, 2002, at 21:38:13
Don't take both at once though, my pharmacist warned me about mixing St. John's Wort and Effexor.
> Jimmy, you are a gem.
> Thanks for for the download nice and slow.
> My mind is amuck racing right now with regrets, irritation, and self-loathing. (PMS, disappointing acting class I drove an hour for, miss California, regrets, boredom) Right now I want to move to NYC, and I have a taste for a breakdown if only someone were awake.
> I WANT MEDICATION SOON! Get the picture?
>
> I will take your advice on the books. Already read some good articles and may take a class on personality psychology.
> And I am in the process of locating a psychiatrist who deals with BPD. Unfortunately the closest psychiatrists are 2 hours away. I'm in the "boonies" back in the nest as some cackling woman said to me today. I wanted to spit on her.
>
> My doctor (regular physician) told me that because I am so sensitive and intolerant of side effects, she wants me on a high dose of St. John's Wort for the dysthymia. I wanted to cry. Maybe I'll just take the effexor after all.
>
> I appreciate your thoughts, and look forward to a real p-doc soon. Hopefully I can find one with experience, but I have my doubts. Perhaps I need to move to NYC to get good help. The idea now is that my folks help me out while I am dealing with my mental health. One step at a time, I guess. But I may be suffering unnecessarily here.
>
> chaos or creativity?
>
> anaya
>
>
> > Listen, all you need is to read a good book or article about BPD (Borderline Perosnality).
> >
> > First, get into amazon.com and order 'Borderline Personality Disorder - A Clinical Guide' by Gunderson, 2001. It's pretty costy but worth every buck you pay for it.
> >
> > Now, if you have access to a library (academic-medical one), get yourself "The psychiatic clinics of north america - Borderline Personality Disorder" - March 2000 issue.
> >
> > > I feel so confused. I thought I knew what I wanted to do (Serzone), but here I sit, still looking at this web site and putting off calling my doctor. Ahh.
> >
> > I don't say Serzone is a bad option at all. It's a good alternative to SSRIs. You can try that in the higher doses, but don't forget to add low-dose antypsychotic such as Risperdal or Zyprexa. The latter might give you some weight gain, but it's worth the try.
> >
> > > I would like to try and SSRI, but worry about weight gain and feeling numbed out.
> > > I suppose the indecisiveness is another symptom of BPD and depression?
> >
> > Ye, Serzone will not make you fill numbed out. SSRIs do make some people numbed out. Did you feel that ? some do. I just say they're better studied for BPD. But Serzone at 300-400mg will do as well, with many side effect though, I warn you.
> >
> > Indecicisiveness is a symptom of depression...
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > Sid, I haven't ruled out effexor xr (I WAS trying the XR), but will keep it in mind for future. I read that serzone and effexor xr can possibly make a good combo for various reasons which can be found on these archives.
> >
> > Try one AD at first with an antipsychotic. Effexor is good as well, another option for you (in 150mg).
> >
> > > > > Anyway, I think what I am learning is that this takes patience and attention.
> >
> > Sure it does.
> >
> > effective. However, when I took it 3 years ago (for 1 month), I felt less depressed, but numbed out. No lows, but no highs either (a bummer for a passionate dramatist).
> >
> > OK, so go for serzone 300-400mg or Effexor 150mg + Antypsychotic, I STRESS.
> >
> > > > > We'll see, if Serzone doesn't quite do it, then perhaps an augment with Prozac.
> >
> > Not a good combo. If serzone dosn't help, try Effexor. If Effexor doesn't help (compined with an Antipsychotic), try remeron or add lithium to the cocktail.
> >
> > > > > And definitely lots of self observation. Maybe I'll finally keep that "tides" chart.
> > > > > thanks.
> > > > > anaya
> >
> > I you got yourself a PDoc with experience with BPD, that would be your best bet !!!
> >
> > Jimmy
>
> ////
Posted by Lorraine on January 5, 2002, at 11:53:38
In reply to Still confused and on St. John's Wort » jimmygold70, posted by anaya on January 3, 2002, at 21:38:13
I am trying St Johns (along with neurontin and ritalin xr). My reason for trying the St Johns is because I am so sensitive to side effects. First two weeks on St Johns very tough, now doing much better (could be cycle, could be sun, could be anything, might be St Johns kicking in on day 18, who knows? I'll keep an eye on it and let you know). I bought Kira St Johns wart b/c it seems to be the quality brand (think it was used in experiments). I am taking once a day, but as I say too early to say if it is working. I am getting a good nights sleep (still take sleeping meds, but have good sleep architecture on St Johns--meaning I wake up rested and can sleep in--which is wonderful--even have dreams) Good luck to you.
> Jimmy, you are a gem.
> Thanks for for the download nice and slow.
> My mind is amuck racing right now with regrets, irritation, and self-loathing. (PMS, disappointing acting class I drove an hour for, miss California, regrets, boredom) Right now I want to move to NYC, and I have a taste for a breakdown if only someone were awake.
> I WANT MEDICATION SOON! Get the picture?
>
> I will take your advice on the books. Already read some good articles and may take a class on personality psychology.
> And I am in the process of locating a psychiatrist who deals with BPD. Unfortunately the closest psychiatrists are 2 hours away. I'm in the "boonies" back in the nest as some cackling woman said to me today. I wanted to spit on her.
>
> My doctor (regular physician) told me that because I am so sensitive and intolerant of side effects, she wants me on a high dose of St. John's Wort for the dysthymia. I wanted to cry. Maybe I'll just take the effexor after all.
>
> I appreciate your thoughts, and look forward to a real p-doc soon. Hopefully I can find one with experience, but I have my doubts. Perhaps I need to move to NYC to get good help. The idea now is that my folks help me out while I am dealing with my mental health. One step at a time, I guess. But I may be suffering unnecessarily here.
>
> chaos or creativity?
>
> anaya
>
>
> > Listen, all you need is to read a good book or article about BPD (Borderline Perosnality).
> >
> > First, get into amazon.com and order 'Borderline Personality Disorder - A Clinical Guide' by Gunderson, 2001. It's pretty costy but worth every buck you pay for it.
> >
> > Now, if you have access to a library (academic-medical one), get yourself "The psychiatic clinics of north america - Borderline Personality Disorder" - March 2000 issue.
> >
> > > I feel so confused. I thought I knew what I wanted to do (Serzone), but here I sit, still looking at this web site and putting off calling my doctor. Ahh.
> >
> > I don't say Serzone is a bad option at all. It's a good alternative to SSRIs. You can try that in the higher doses, but don't forget to add low-dose antypsychotic such as Risperdal or Zyprexa. The latter might give you some weight gain, but it's worth the try.
> >
> > > I would like to try and SSRI, but worry about weight gain and feeling numbed out.
> > > I suppose the indecisiveness is another symptom of BPD and depression?
> >
> > Ye, Serzone will not make you fill numbed out. SSRIs do make some people numbed out. Did you feel that ? some do. I just say they're better studied for BPD. But Serzone at 300-400mg will do as well, with many side effect though, I warn you.
> >
> > Indecicisiveness is a symptom of depression...
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > Sid, I haven't ruled out effexor xr (I WAS trying the XR), but will keep it in mind for future. I read that serzone and effexor xr can possibly make a good combo for various reasons which can be found on these archives.
> >
> > Try one AD at first with an antipsychotic. Effexor is good as well, another option for you (in 150mg).
> >
> > > > > Anyway, I think what I am learning is that this takes patience and attention.
> >
> > Sure it does.
> >
> > effective. However, when I took it 3 years ago (for 1 month), I felt less depressed, but numbed out. No lows, but no highs either (a bummer for a passionate dramatist).
> >
> > OK, so go for serzone 300-400mg or Effexor 150mg + Antypsychotic, I STRESS.
> >
> > > > > We'll see, if Serzone doesn't quite do it, then perhaps an augment with Prozac.
> >
> > Not a good combo. If serzone dosn't help, try Effexor. If Effexor doesn't help (compined with an Antipsychotic), try remeron or add lithium to the cocktail.
> >
> > > > > And definitely lots of self observation. Maybe I'll finally keep that "tides" chart.
> > > > > thanks.
> > > > > anaya
> >
> > I you got yourself a PDoc with experience with BPD, that would be your best bet !!!
> >
> > Jimmy
>
> ////
Posted by anaya on January 5, 2002, at 12:09:44
In reply to Re: Still confused and on St. John's Wort » anaya, posted by Lorraine on January 5, 2002, at 11:53:38
Lorraine,
my GP said that in order for St. John's Wort to be really effective, one needs to take a largish dose of it. I think she had the mg's confused because she thought it was 60mg 3 times a day to make 120mg. But most capsules are 300mg each.
So I'm taking 900mg a day.
How much are you taking?anaya--
Posted by jimmygold70 on January 5, 2002, at 12:16:39
In reply to Re: Still confused and on St. John's Wort » Lorraine, posted by anaya on January 5, 2002, at 12:09:44
Did you read my account concerning St. John's Wort ?
Posted by anaya on January 5, 2002, at 18:10:51
In reply to Re: Still confused and on St. John's Wort » anaya, posted by jimmygold70 on January 5, 2002, at 12:16:39
> Did you read my account concerning St. John's Wort ?
Yes, thank you. I printed out the info from The Natural Pharmacist, though have mostly skimmed it. Very thorough. thank you.
I took it to be in support of St. John's Wort for mild to moderate depression, which is what I experience. I can get out of bed and function (except for being unemployed) and am not "severely" depressed. St. John's Wort did work for me in the past, though I don't know the dosage as I was using tincture. Though I don't think it will help with very mild OCD (I "type" words over and over) nor with the BPD.Anyway, I feel the St. John's Wort might be adequate for the depression, but am hoping for something stronger and more definitive for my other concerns. Therefore, I am following through with locating a psychiatrist and in fact, was informed that there IS one in this podunk village after all. Which means 5 min. drive rather than 1-2 hours if I like her.
I am grateful for this opportunity. However, I am noticing that I am existing with this self inflicted daily stigma that I am "screwed up," and I think of it quite often. And am wondering if all the attention I am focussing on what is "wrong" with me is actually making me more depressed. Am I really ill or am I just trying to medicate stagnant energy and lack of movement in my life? Like, if I jumped in and took a risk with my life, sought out joyful experiences, and "distracted" myself with "work" would I be enlivened. Or am I getting real about problem that has existed for a long time and taking determined measures to reclaim my life. It is very Saturn and inherited of me to see "doom and gloom" instead of juicing the sweet, spunky, and talented woman I am But again, this is what the depression seems to fog up and the fabulous me shrinks under the illusions, fear, and apathy of this "mild" depression.
sorry for the rant. due to the typing OCD, I type very fast and far.
yes, I read the info. You appear very resourceful. Your time and thought is much, much appreciated.
anaya,/
Posted by Lorraine on January 8, 2002, at 14:41:29
In reply to Re: Still confused and on St. John's Wort » Lorraine, posted by anaya on January 5, 2002, at 12:09:44
900 mg once a day sustained release Kira brand from the UK.
Lorraine
> Lorraine,
>
> my GP said that in order for St. John's Wort to be really effective, one needs to take a largish dose of it. I think she had the mg's confused because she thought it was 60mg 3 times a day to make 120mg. But most capsules are 300mg each.
> So I'm taking 900mg a day.
> How much are you taking?
>
> anaya--
Posted by disney4 on October 29, 2002, at 15:56:46
In reply to Re: Still confused and on St. John's Wort » anaya, posted by Lorraine on January 8, 2002, at 14:41:29
Hi,
I am also sensitive to prescription AD's, and have just concluded a Sam-e month long trial without success. All it did was make me tired. I started on the Kira yesterday. How are you doing now? How did you get the once a day form in the US? Do you have any sexual side effects from the Wort?
Elsie
Posted by anaya on October 29, 2002, at 17:48:43
In reply to Re: Still confused and on St. John's Wort » Lorraine, posted by disney4 on October 29, 2002, at 15:56:46
> Hi,
>
> I am also sensitive to prescription AD's, and have just concluded a Sam-e month long trial without success. All it did was make me tired. I started on the Kira yesterday. How are you doing now? How did you get the once a day form in the US? Do you have any sexual side effects from the Wort?
>i've been on st. john's wort and other things for about 6 mos. sometimes successfully, sometimes not. the best st. john's wort i've found is new chapter, super critically extracted st. john's wort, which is 10% hyperforins.... didn't find kira to be effective for me. and no sexual side effects, except for a somewhat general blase about sex which i think comes from teh dysthymia itself. i could talk more, but gotta run.
check out gabriel cousens book: Depression Free For Life.-andrea
Posted by disney4 on October 29, 2002, at 21:33:27
In reply to Re: Still confused and on St. John's Wort » disney4, posted by anaya on October 29, 2002, at 17:48:43
Thanks! I feel a lot better now. I have heard a lot of negative publicity surrounding the St John's Wort, which I think is due to faulty studies sponsored by drug companies, but it really helps to hear from someone it has worked for. I am going to order the New Chapter. Do you take it first thing in the morning?
Elsie
Posted by ZeeZee on October 30, 2002, at 17:24:50
In reply to Re: Still confused and on St. John's Wort » Lorraine, posted by disney4 on October 29, 2002, at 15:56:46
I was on SJW for 4 years and have recently re-started it. I'm in my 5th week and although my primary diagnosis is panic disorder and agoraphobia I feel less guilt, shame and remorse about my disorder and believe it's the SJW. There are NO side effects to SJW, except for photosensitivity which frankly I never noticed (primarily effects those who are very fair and sunburn easily). It does reduce the effectiveness of birth control pills so you may need to consider that. SJW works well for mild - moderate, but not severe depression or bi-polar disorder.
Good Luck
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