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Posted by katia on December 10, 2003, at 0:14:34
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss?, posted by cyndie on December 9, 2003, at 16:42:20
To anyone,
I've got two questions:
1. does the reason alone that Topamax cause weight loss is loss of appetite? You know in reverse, how some meds will make you gain weight with no increase in appetite or eating.2 - How good is Topamax with Lamictal as a mood stabilizer for bipolar II/Mixed rapid cycling depression?
anyone? anyone?
thanks.
katia
Posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 2:18:16
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss?, posted by katia on December 10, 2003, at 0:14:34
> To anyone,
> I've got two questions:
> 1. does the reason alone that Topamax cause weight loss is loss of appetite? You know in reverse, how some meds will make you gain weight with no increase in appetite or eating.
>
> 2 - How good is Topamax with Lamictal as a mood stabilizer for bipolar II/Mixed rapid cycling depression?
>
> anyone? anyone?
> thanks.
> katiaGood question, I was wondering that also. Plus, has anyone had any experiences, good or bad, while drinking alcohol while on topamax? Any info would be much appriciated!
Thanks!
Beck
Posted by Cybele on December 11, 2003, at 8:57:55
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss?, posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 2:18:16
> Good question, I was wondering that also. Plus, has anyone had any experiences, good or bad, while drinking alcohol while on topamax? Any info would be much appriciated!
Beck, I read the archived posts about Topamax before I tried the med, and there were quite a few posts from people who say, "Don't drink alcohol on this med!" The PDR says that alcohol increases the side effects of Topamax. Because Topamax tends to dehydrate you without the alcohol, you add alcohol to the mix and you will have a helluva hangover. Drinking lots of water with the alcohol usually does not help much because alcohol seems to inhibit your body's absorption of water (this is purely my observation, LOL).
That said, I took 25mg a day of Topamax for 3 weeks and had 3 drinks on Thanksgiving and did not have any untoward aftereffects. That was the only alcohol I had in those 3 weeks and I was on a baby-sized dose, so I would imagine if you were drinking 4-5 times a week at a higher dose you might feel pretty crapulent most of the time. I think the problems really kick in when you are at the more therapeutic doses.
BTW, I stopped taking Topamax after three weeks because I started losing fistfuls of my hair when I shampooed. Now I am just taking 150mg WB-SR in the morning and getting a weekly 4 hours of good cardio exercise (i.e., with heart rate 70-80% of max.). My dx was double depression/soft bipolar, although I am feeling a lot better now than I was in September/October. (The exercise did it with a little boost from the Wellbutrin, I think.)
Posted by katia on December 11, 2003, at 15:23:19
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » Beck, posted by Cybele on December 11, 2003, at 8:57:55
Hi,
You say soft bipolar. What were your "symptoms"? You also say double depression. I take it you've been depressed all of your life and then on top of that had a severe and major depression?
that sounds like me.
I've been dxed as "double depression" last summer and after a year of trial and ERROR on ADs; i got the BPII dx.
katia
Posted by katia on December 11, 2003, at 15:24:16
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » Beck, posted by Cybele on December 11, 2003, at 8:57:55
what does "LOL" mean?
Posted by Cybele on December 11, 2003, at 16:07:09
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » Cybele, posted by katia on December 11, 2003, at 15:23:19
> Hi,
> You say soft bipolar. What were your "symptoms"? You also say double depression. I take it you've been depressed all of your life and then on top of that had a severe and major depression?
> that sounds like me.
> I've been dxed as "double depression" last summer and after a year of trial and ERROR on ADs; i got the BPII dx.At different times I have been dx as dysthymic and soft bipolar, so the "/" indicates "or," in this case. My current therapist gave me a questionnaire that indicated I could fall into either category. I also have a family history (half-sister is BP-I and our father, who bounced between "feeling blue" and grandiosity throughout his adult life) was probably also BP-II. My hypomanias are few and far between, but have led to my making some rather poor decisions in my life because I was confident I knew what I was doing.
I have had many minor depressions (mostly difficulty concentrating, eating and sleeping too much) and a major depression about every 3 years (ages 13, 16, 19, 22, 24, 28, 33). As long as I keep busy, avoid stress, and get regular exercise, I tend to be OK. I was pretty much fine during the 5 years when I was either pregnant and/or breastfeeding (36-41). I did have a little bit of post-partum psychosis (or I could "see it" even tho I wasn't there, if that makes sense), but nothing that made me do anything scary.
Feel free to correct me, folks, but from what I have read it can be difficult to distinguish between dysthymia and soft bipolar, and one thing that PDOCs are finding is that many folks in this category respond better to mood stabilizers, hence "it must be BP-II." Failure to be helped by popular ADs is one of the red lights docs often looks for when considering the soft BP dx. Six weeks on Paxil was a nightmare for me, as was Prozac (although I only took that one for 2 weeks). Wellbutrin was OK when I took it 10 years ago, altho I think going off of Paxil and quitting my job and moving across country was what helped me step out of my depression that time. I started feeling better the day after I went off Paxil, which was the day I started WB.
Be that as it may, regular aerobic exercise (70-80% of max. heart rate for at least 3-4 hours total a week) is the only "antidepressant" that I can state unequivocally has helped me.
Posted by Cybele on December 11, 2003, at 16:09:46
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » Cybele, posted by katia on December 11, 2003, at 15:24:16
> what does "LOL" mean?
It means that as I was typing that I probably went "Ha!" out loud and scared the kids.
LOL = Laughing Out Loud.
Posted by helenag on December 11, 2003, at 16:13:20
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » Beck, posted by Cybele on December 11, 2003, at 8:57:55
Hi cybele: I'm on 300mg of topamax, increased from 250mg, which had been my dose for about 4 months previously. Am on it for mood stabilization and to help with alcohol cravings. Well, topamax does not help me with cravings. It does not prevent cravings nor deter drinking, at least not in my experience. There have been studies done on using the drug for this purpose for alcoholics.
Have never had any hangovers from drinking. Have never noticed any increase in the effect of alcohol. Am on a teeny tiny dose of seroquel and I won't take any of that if ever drinking--too sedating a mix. Have been on effexor xr 300mg for three years and have never noticed anything amiss while drinking and taking it.
However, I do note that lately I have had some leg cramps and wondered if it was from being dehydrated. Haven't drank for over a week. Also at 300mg, my cognition has me seeming quite ditsy at times.
Hope this helps. Just one person's experience.
Posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 19:30:08
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » Beck, posted by Cybele on December 11, 2003, at 8:57:55
> > Good question, I was wondering that also. Plus, has anyone had any experiences, good or bad, while drinking alcohol while on topamax? Any info would be much appriciated!
>
> Beck, I read the archived posts about Topamax before I tried the med, and there were quite a few posts from people who say, "Don't drink alcohol on this med!" The PDR says that alcohol increases the side effects of Topamax. Because Topamax tends to dehydrate you without the alcohol, you add alcohol to the mix and you will have a helluva hangover. Drinking lots of water with the alcohol usually does not help much because alcohol seems to inhibit your body's absorption of water (this is purely my observation, LOL).
>
> That said, I took 25mg a day of Topamax for 3 weeks and had 3 drinks on Thanksgiving and did not have any untoward aftereffects. That was the only alcohol I had in those 3 weeks and I was on a baby-sized dose, so I would imagine if you were drinking 4-5 times a week at a higher dose you might feel pretty crapulent most of the time. I think the problems really kick in when you are at the more therapeutic doses.
>
> BTW, I stopped taking Topamax after three weeks because I started losing fistfuls of my hair when I shampooed. Now I am just taking 150mg WB-SR in the morning and getting a weekly 4 hours of good cardio exercise (i.e., with heart rate 70-80% of max.). My dx was double depression/soft bipolar, although I am feeling a lot better now than I was in September/October. (The exercise did it with a little boost from the Wellbutrin, I think.)
>
>HAIR LOSS???? No No No I'm too vain to loose hair:) Is this a symptom that is common for many people?
Posted by Cybele on December 11, 2003, at 19:55:22
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss?, posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 19:30:08
Go to the bottom of this page and enter the following into the Google search box:
hair loss topamax
Then search on dr-bob.org.
Posted by headachequeen on December 11, 2003, at 20:00:56
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss?, posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 19:30:08
> > BTW, I stopped taking Topamax after three weeks because I started losing fistfuls of my hair when I shampooed. > >
> >
>
> HAIR LOSS???? No No No I'm too vain to loose hair:) Is this a symptom that is common for many people?
>Tegretol and Topomax both cause hair loss and drying out of hair... so take biotin and vitamins c and e and zinc and there is no problem... I take 400 mg of both per day and my hair is not falling out and is no longer
imitating straw.. for a while there I was worried... and my hair is one of my greatest vanities... that and my voice...
and when I went for a single fibre bundle test... DON"T EVER LET ANYONE CON YOU INTO ONE OF THOSE... the neurologist doing it told me that the changes in my voice were a symptom...
not of what, but a symptom...
oh, joy... I am left in the dark again...
they treat us like mushrooms in that neurological area...
kat
Posted by kka on December 11, 2003, at 20:06:01
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » Beck, posted by headachequeen on December 11, 2003, at 20:00:56
> > > BTW, I stopped taking Topamax after three weeks because I started losing fistfuls of my hair when I shampooed. > >
> > >
> >
> > HAIR LOSS???? No No No I'm too vain to loose hair:) Is this a symptom that is common for many people?
> >
>
> Tegretol and Topomax both cause hair loss and drying out of hair... so take biotin and vitamins c and e and zinc and there is no problem... I take 400 mg of both per day and my hair is not falling out and is no longer
> imitating straw.. for a while there I was worried... and my hair is one of my greatest vanities... that and my voice...
> and when I went for a single fibre bundle test... DON"T EVER LET ANYONE CON YOU INTO ONE OF THOSE... the neurologist doing it told me that the changes in my voice were a symptom...
> not of what, but a symptom...
> oh, joy... I am left in the dark again...
> they treat us like mushrooms in that neurological area...
> kat
Kat,I know I have read that you take 2500 mgs of Biotin which I have now started, but what do you take 400 mgs of Vitamin E and C? How much Zinc.
BTW - Does anyone have that link Murphia posted re the other discussion group for Topamax users? Any help would be great. I couldn't find the old post! Thanks
>
Posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 20:31:03
In reply to Topamax Experiences?, posted by Kingfish on January 4, 2001, at 7:29:48
Wow, when I look at all the horrendious possible side-effects of Topamax I have to look forward to, I find myself wondering why my neurologist asked me to try it. This medicine sounds like more trouble than its worth really. But anyway, thanks for educating me on the horrors/great things about Topamax!
Posted by headachequeen on December 11, 2003, at 20:36:58
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 20:31:03
> Wow, when I look at all the horrendious possible side-effects of Topamax I have to look forward to, I find myself wondering why my neurologist asked me to try it. This medicine sounds like more trouble than its worth really. But anyway, thanks for educating me on the horrors/great things about Topamax!
it may well depend upon the reason for trying it... there are other meds out there that do the same thing and have worse side effects.. I am trying to convince my doctor to take me off tegretol and put me on topomax exclusively because believe me, tegretol makes topomax look like a walk in the park on sunday afternoon... followed by a picnic while the band plays in the band stand and swans sail majestically down the river...
I am still enjoying the tingling in the hands and feet and now have the tingling in my face... and that is all thanks to Tegretol.. or maybe it is new symptoms of the epilepsy... who knows??? I can find out by stopping the meds entirely to see... and then go into seizures... what a lovely choice....
kat
Posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 20:52:45
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences? » Beck, posted by headachequeen on December 11, 2003, at 20:36:58
> > Wow, when I look at all the horrendious possible side-effects of Topamax I have to look forward to, I find myself wondering why my neurologist asked me to try it. This medicine sounds like more trouble than its worth really. But anyway, thanks for educating me on the horrors/great things about Topamax!
>
> it may well depend upon the reason for trying it... there are other meds out there that do the same thing and have worse side effects.. I am trying to convince my doctor to take me off tegretol and put me on topomax exclusively because believe me, tegretol makes topomax look like a walk in the park on sunday afternoon... followed by a picnic while the band plays in the band stand and swans sail majestically down the river...
> I am still enjoying the tingling in the hands and feet and now have the tingling in my face... and that is all thanks to Tegretol.. or maybe it is new symptoms of the epilepsy... who knows??? I can find out by stopping the meds entirely to see... and then go into seizures... what a lovely choice....
> katThe tingling in your hands and feet is from Tegretol? When my neurologist perscribed Topamax he said that that would probly happen, not looking forward to that! Luckily it hasnt began yet, but its only week 1, so I'll wait and see.
Posted by headachequeen on December 11, 2003, at 21:39:32
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 20:52:45
> The tingling in your hands and feet is from Tegretol? When my neurologist perscribed Topamax he said that that would probly happen, not looking forward to that! Luckily it hasnt began yet, but its only week 1, so I'll wait and see.
There is some tingling with the Topomax I am told but there is a lot of tingling ... tingling??? it is as if someone cut off the circulation to my hands and feet and then let it start again... extreme pins and needles... with the tegretol... has been going on ever since I started taking the stuff...
yes there are side effects to Topomax... no pretending otherwise... but I have come to think and experience that the side effects are less and easier to live with from Topomax...
just my experience and opinion I realise... and I have also found that there is more help available for the side effects from Topomax and dealing with them... and that is here...
I take 400 mg a day of Topomax and while at times I found it scary because of what I read and what I scared myself into believing... the experience has not been as bad as the Tegretol one... and the control over the seizures has been much greater since the Topomax entered the picture... again my opinion and experience...
and I am still working on getting the Tegretol out of the picture... or on getting onto less Tegretol and replacing it with Topomax...
kat
Posted by mags on December 12, 2003, at 8:54:35
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by Beck on December 11, 2003, at 20:52:45
I got tingling in face, arms, hands and feet. It usually was at its worst after each increase in dose..it was annoying but I could live with it. It was like pins and needels when your foot goes asleep when you lay on it. THe worst for me was my face..especailly when I ate... my lips would tingle!! Really weird!! But it has pretty well all gone away!! Titrate slowly and you will be fine.
Good Luck.Maggie
Posted by cyndie on December 12, 2003, at 12:04:15
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » Beck, posted by headachequeen on December 11, 2003, at 20:00:56
Whoa...what is this about a change in your voice?!?!?!?!
Posted by jtevers on December 12, 2003, at 14:27:01
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences? » Beck, posted by mags on December 12, 2003, at 8:54:35
> I got tingling in face, arms, hands and feet. It usually was at its worst after each increase in dose..it was annoying but I could live with it. It was like pins and needels when your foot goes asleep when you lay on it. THe worst for me was my face..especailly when I ate... my lips would tingle!! Really weird!! But it has pretty well all gone away!! Titrate slowly and you will be fine.
Maggie, et. al.,
i have read seldomly that ingesting moderate (amount?) doses of a complex vitamin B helps quell the tingling sensation, any experience?
am i understanding correctly that the tingling that occurred in response to dose increases in your topamax also abated with time ... until the next increase? and may be avoided with slow titration?
Posted by Beck on December 13, 2003, at 0:19:57
In reply to Re: Topamax tingling and vitamin B ?, posted by jtevers on December 12, 2003, at 14:27:01
> > I got tingling in face, arms, hands and feet. It usually was at its worst after each increase in dose..it was annoying but I could live with it. It was like pins and needels when your foot goes asleep when you lay on it. THe worst for me was my face..especailly when I ate... my lips would tingle!! Really weird!! But it has pretty well all gone away!! Titrate slowly and you will be fine.
>
> Maggie, et. al.,
>
> i have read seldomly that ingesting moderate (amount?) doses of a complex vitamin B helps quell the tingling sensation, any experience?
>
> am i understanding correctly that the tingling that occurred in response to dose increases in your topamax also abated with time ... until the next increase? and may be avoided with slow titration?
>
>Whats titration? and is complex vitamin b different than just vitamin b?
Posted by jtevers on December 13, 2003, at 12:23:48
In reply to Re: Topamax tingling and vitamin B ?, posted by Beck on December 13, 2003, at 0:19:57
> > Maggie, et. al.,
> >
> > i have read seldomly that ingesting moderate (amount?) doses of a complex vitamin B helps quell the tingling sensation, any experience?
> >
> > am i understanding correctly that the tingling that occurred in response to dose increases in your topamax also abated with time ... until the next increase? and may be avoided with slow titration?
> >
> >
>
> Whats titration? and is complex vitamin b different than just vitamin b?answer: titration is the process of gradually increasing the dose you ingest, ie. to titrate slowly step by step.
and i don't know why or how but b-complex is a different vitamin than plain old B.
Posted by Beck on December 14, 2003, at 22:04:39
In reply to Topamax Experiences?, posted by Kingfish on January 4, 2001, at 7:29:48
So its only been a week since I started taking 1/2 of a 25mg topamax once a day and I'm so incredibley tired! I sleep 11 hours a night and it kills me to get up even then. this is okay now because I'm on break, but when school begins again I cant do this. Has anyone experienced this sleepiness and does it go away or get worse as I increase dose?
Posted by jhlsgirl on December 15, 2003, at 9:30:16
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by Beck on December 14, 2003, at 22:04:39
I too just started 1/2 of 25 mg. It's so weird how this drug effects people differently. I am a little tired during the day and maybe a little foggy. I have slept better then I have in a long time. but really sleepy I am not. In fact I have to say I am a little less sleepy then before I started. I was prescribed topamax as a mood stablizer and to correct my sleep I have sleep apnea as well. I started on 1/2 25 mg because of this board..thank you all so much..i hope the teeny improvment I feel gets alot bigger!!
Posted by Sooshi on December 15, 2003, at 9:33:15
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by Beck on December 14, 2003, at 22:04:39
Hi Beck,
My experience was the same...extreme tiredness for the first two weeks (I started with 25mgs at night). I literally couldn't function. But, it DID go away, and now I don't have any tiredness at all. I actually have a LOT of energy. With every increase in dosage though, expect another few days/week of fatigue and tiredness. Hang in there...it takes a while to build up to your therapeutic dosage, so you'll need a lot of patience!
Posted by headachequeen on December 15, 2003, at 11:29:19
In reply to Re: Topamax tingling and vitamin B ?, posted by jtevers on December 12, 2003, at 14:27:01
>
> am i understanding correctly that the tingling that occurred in response to dose increases in your topamax also abated with time ... until the next increase? and may be avoided with slow titration?
>
>Arrgghhh there are days when one should either sleep until the next day or not turn on the computer or something....
<g>Tegretol, another of the anti-seizure medications causes the tingling...tingling, now there is a nice euphemism... we live in a cold climate... they do not call it NORTHERN Ontario for no reason, believe me... and I never know if my hands and feed are telling me that they are about to file for separate maintenance because of impending frostbite or about to fall off because they are frozen or if it is just another Tegretol reaction...
the tingling side effect from the Tegretol never goes away...
at least not in my experience...it made it fun trying to sort out the Topomax experience .... :)
and before the Topomax introduction, which was done at 25 mg increments over a period of months.. and at my discretion, I could increase the dosage every two weeeks or go slower if I wished... the 'tingling' was so extreme at times that my doctor thought it might be a symptom of something else...
No one has ever told me that the Tegretol Tingles will go away...
they also affect the face... and it seems to be more on a whenever they feel like it basis...
indeed it is time to convince Someone... ANYONE that Tegretol needs to be replaced with more Topomax... maybe I am the only lunatic here? I don't know but I am convinced with all that I read that there is less risk from it than from Tegretol.... fewer side effects...
and less discomfort...
kat
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