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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4813 to 4837 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:05:55
In reply to Re: Zinya, posted by willie on July 24, 2003, at 10:35:09
> I've been keeping my eye out for her other book "Stuggle for Intimacy".
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Niniveh on July 24, 2003, at 19:07:52
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Yes, actually. I know that this message is mighty late to the initial post, but I just wanted to add my two-cents...
Although I have less difficulties than 99% of those on this site, I can take 37.5 mg Effexor XR and be the person I want to be: stoic and unshakable yet loving and sane.
I have NO stress or issues, but without Effexor, I cannot control periods of crying and rage, which have absolutely no cause. Coming from a family of staunch stoics, that was incomprehensible and appauling.
I've taken Effexor for three years and am ready to ween myself off the drug for the reasons that follow. (Even at 37.5, I'm thinking weening down my daily dosage may be a good idea after reading these posts.)
Although I have been virtually symptom-free since my adjustment to the drug, there were some drawbacks even at mighty low dosage. At 75 mg, I stopped sleeping entirely. My blood pressure has slowly risen from 105/70 to 132/80. I am experiencing a major increase in loosing words just-on-the-tip-of-my-tongue, which is embarassing if it's someone's name or my own phone number. My sex drive was low before but nonexistant now, and with a hubby who gets... uncomfortable... after two days, that is annoying. The only other thing I've noticed is complaicency; I don't complain even when I should.
Anyway, I've enjoyed being the person I am for several years, but I think my body needs a break. Also, I hope that I am actually better... But I won't believe it until I see for myself
Nin
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:28:04
In reply to Re: Resurect'g Pleasers w/men who are Cont?YG KDI » KimberlyDi, posted by mercedes on July 24, 2003, at 18:21:14
> I just had to go back and resurrect this subject...
I don't mean to disrupt this very nice discussion, but I'd like to ask that follow-ups be redirected to another board if they don't relate to medication issues. Psychological Babble is about psychology and psychological treatments, Psycho-Social-Babble is for general support and "just" being social, etc. Here's a link to the latter for this topic:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030719/msgs/244989.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 20:05:50
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Niniveh on July 24, 2003, at 19:07:52
Dear Nin,
Even though you are at the lowest dosage 37.5 - I would actually wean off slowly.
Staying at the 37.5 for a while and then divide the capsule in half to 18.75. I know that in the posts a week or so ago there were different instructions from different posters on how to do it.
There are many posters on here who actually divided up the granuals by 1/2's and 1/3'rds and took them using apple sauce.
Some people started Effexor by dividing the 37.5's to 18.75 and went up like that gradually and that's how many weaned themselves off of it.
I only was on 37.5 for 6 days, and I had some withdrawal symptoms that I didn't like, one of them being rage inside myself, the brain zaps, etc., but EVERYONE is different.
I've heard of people going cold turkey from 150 mgs. with no side effects and then there was me 6 days on 37.5 and tortured for 4 days after I quit the Effexor.
I think Zinya did it the best way - she went extremely slow and I think she described it as a turtle pace and she did have some SE's but they weren't as drastic as some others.
Also, have you told your doctor that you were going to be stopping? Maybe he/she can help you and give you some advise also.
Good Luck to you and keep us posted, I'm sure your experience will help a lot of others.
Hugs,
Cher
Posted by noa on July 24, 2003, at 20:52:15
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Niniveh on July 24, 2003, at 19:07:52
I just wanted to say that I like your name.
Posted by noa on July 24, 2003, at 20:54:17
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Niniveh, posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 20:05:50
Maybe we should all send a petition to the W-A company asking them to produce it in smaller doses!
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 20:58:54
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by noa on July 24, 2003, at 20:54:17
Posted by Daphnis on July 24, 2003, at 21:28:04
In reply to Re: Oh you guys...., posted by tray on July 24, 2003, at 16:57:35
Hey, Tracy. I struggle incredibly with the whole religious thing, but it helped me so much when I felt I literally had nothing left. It wasn't the case. I was leaving my marriage, but I did have two beautiful little girls. Now it's almost 15 years since the separation, ten since the divorce, and I see my kids struggling. that's hard. But I will pray for you. It helps me that you ask, because I forget to pray, most often! I haven't been able to get myself to church for months. But I have a very private and personal sense of my own spiritual journey. Hard to admit to or talk about. Daph
Posted by Yankeegirl on July 24, 2003, at 21:37:06
In reply to Redirect: Resurect'g Pleasers w/men who are Cont, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:28:04
> > I just had to go back and resurrect this subject...
>
> I don't mean to disrupt this very nice discussion, but I'd like to ask that follow-ups be redirected to another board if they don't relate to medication issues. Psychological Babble is about psychology and psychological treatments, Psycho-Social-Babble is for general support and "just" being social, etc. Here's a link to the latter for this topic:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030719/msgs/244989.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobWell, that explains why effexor is all we ever talk about here! Hhhmmm. Um, ok. Well, at 4 weeks, I have no side effects on effexor and I want to talk about self esteem and no identify and childhood bullying and anxiety and depression and verbal abuse and being a doormat, so I guess I'll check out Dr. Bob's other site. Gee, I was really enjoying this neighborhood. I hope to see the rest of you there too! Bye, Yankeegirl
Posted by Yankeegirl on July 24, 2003, at 21:45:29
In reply to Redirect: Resurect'g Pleasers w/men who are Cont, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:28:04
Hey Mercedes, I just left a really long post about verbal abuse, but Dr. Bob did not post it because it is not about effexor. Harrumph. Well, I wish you and the other posters all the very best - I have learned SO MUCH from all of you. Thank you, thank you all, for sharing.
One last opinion, if Dr. Bob will post it:
Getting Effexor from a family doctor for depression/anxiety is like getting aspirin from a family doctor for a brain tumor.
See you at the 'social' site. Yankeegirl
Posted by Daphnis on July 24, 2003, at 21:54:53
In reply to Re: KDI, didn't know you felt this way » mercedes, posted by KimberlyDi on July 24, 2003, at 17:06:20
This is so intense! How do you all keep up? I am trying not to feel inadequate to this cool new thing I have found! But it's hard to know how to deal. Nine hours of work, and all I wanted to do was see what was here, and I've read tons and there are still 25 messages. I guess perfectionism is talking, eh? OK Progress, not perfection! I will make some responses and if I am too tired I will come back tomorrow.
Midgie, you say miniscule doses. Do you break tabs?? I was excited to read that. :)
is "imo" a person or an abbreviation?
about friends who "should" on you: As you change, it is OK to change friends. It's a good sign to be taking care of yourself and setting some boundaries and making choices as to who you will spend precious time and energy on. I have had to do that too. It isn't easy or fun, but it does help.
About "small talk" at the reunion and the incredibly horrible question, "So what are you doing now?" (My immediate panic over trying to sound legitimate and worthy of living and adequate and to cover up all traces of my self-loathing and underachieving). I realized when I read your post that it's not really "small talk" at all, but huge talk!! all the negative self talk starts up then! Ironic. It's like all this stuff is much MORE REAL than the so-called "real world".
Yes, I read Woititz in the early 90's. Either a counselor, or AL-anon person, or the Adult Children of Alcoholics group I was in turned me on to many books. Read Struggle For INtimacy, too. and love Bradshaw, too. But it is still a long long road from the head to the heart!Zinya, you mentioned frustration. That's a huge problem with me. Sends me into a spiral down. I want to do so much too much all the time. Have huge impossible expectations of myself, and always feel behind and inadequate. I read somewhere, maybe in "EVERYDAY SACRED" that it was just the scarcity model of time. Made sense. since the scarcity model rules my life!
Cher, you're not a freak. I'm not crazy, and none of us are worthless. Feelings aren't good or bad, they just are. I sure identified with your saying you spent 40 years mostly unhappy. I had a lot of highs, too, but mostly I look back and feel a sense of waste. All those years. I hate going to Dr's. too. I get sick of analyzing, too. AA says, "Sick and tired of being sick and tired."
I also say a lot to myself "This, too, shall pass." It took many years to learn that the feelings that were so bad were not forever. I try to eat right (and usually fail) sleep enough (often fail) and even remember to breathe better! sounds crazy, but if it's chemical, I figure the tension keeps me from breathing the way I was designed to breathe! and chemmical reactions need Oxygen. I also try to remember that I want to live in the solution and not in the problem and that helps my focus. But I am a real "awfulizer"!
Susan, dreams help me a lot, and often I am not aware of them. when I dream, things are better. I can't drink coffee after 3 or even noon, but I do, sometimes, and then am really sorry at 3 A.M.
And in the morning I need three cups to get really going, like someone else said. I have given it up before...It is supposed to interfere with the Serotonin response, as is Aspartame, they say. I am sort of addicted to both, unfortunately. I am a really addictive type.the talk of adrenalin interests me. Years ago my brother in law gave me some ritalin for depression. Of course, I broke the pills in quarters or less, and had ten pills for over three years! But I sure loved how it worked. I know it wasn't the best idea. I guess it affects the adrenaline.
OK...I saw the addiction filter option here and may have to use it. I am trying to allow myself the joy of this for a few days and not should on myself or shame myself for being totally into it! Daph
Posted by zinya on July 24, 2003, at 23:37:46
In reply to to everyone about everything! » KimberlyDi, posted by Daphnis on July 24, 2003, at 21:54:53
what a great post, Daph! sooo vibrant!!
imo = in my opinion
imho = in my humble opinionalso some other abbrevs that might come up:
eom = end of message
nm = no message
lol = laugh out loudyou're right that small talk is, for us, huge talk! or maybe it's that it's "stilted talk" ... or "living up to expectations talk" ..
what a good point you made about breathing. I have (still boxed somewhere with all my books i've never unboxed since moving here) a book on Chi Breathing that i used to have in abookcase near my bed to remind me to think about breathing - which we take for granted but don't "exercise" and practice it for the deep breathing that really can make a huge difference in overall health... The minute i read your sentence i found myself filling my belly with air :)) and breathing deep. I'm usually pathetically forgetful and breathe way too shallowly.
and what an evocative word, "awfulizer" !?!?! but, i dare say, it sounds like a word that belongs in your get-rid-of pile! :)
speaking of Aspertame, what did it for me was learning a few months back that allegedly aspertame turns into formaldehyde in the body. I heard it from two different sources and then read it somewhere. Not sure it's 100% gospel but it was enough to make me stop buying diet Coke, although i only periodically "got by" on it, but now i've forced myself if a need a Coke to drink regular, which means i have had only 2 in the past 3 months.
ritalin for depression?? isn't ritalin for hyperactivity? i'm confused. or is this another case where it regulates either extreme?
well, again, your post was so full and fascinating and your energy seems even contagious. I just ended (well getting near) my 2nd day on 150 mg. and amazingly since the 2nd day at a level is usually when side effects kick in, but i didn't even have those head pressure feelings i described yesterday.
The only thing is that for second day in a row i woke up way too early with only about 5 hrs sleep and couldn't get back to sleep. But i think that could be my VERY sore back from the major adjustment to unrotate my lumbar on Tuesday and it's still so sore that i think it woke me up, so not sure it's an Effexor effect. But i'm kind of stunned (in a positive way) that the only thing i'm dealing with is feeling a bit zombie from lack of sleep - Oh and still getting hot and sweaty way easier than before but that wasn't too bad either.
And the tree guy cleared off the downed trunk and another one that was in danger of breaking too... But i was sad all day for the birds who i'd hated to deprive of their multi-layered perches just off the deck... I have to get energy enough to plant them a new tree that won't risk breaking ...
i'm getting heavy-lidded and probably won't make it through all the posts and it's only 9:30 pm, and i never go to bed before midnight (pre-Effexor it was 1 am -- Effexor does seem to make me sleepy earlier but this is kind of ridiculous - i'm not a 9 pm sleeper...
what did you mean by "addiction filter option"?
anyway, i'm babbling (again)... hasta la vista ... or hasta la escrita (?) ...
hugs to all,
zinya
Posted by zinya on July 24, 2003, at 23:58:14
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Niniveh on July 24, 2003, at 19:07:52
hi nineveh,
yeah, from what i've digested here, i'd encourage you to taper off too even from 37.5. Some people go to 37.5 every other day and then every third day. I tapered upwards by opening the capsule and divvying up the granules in half and started at 19 mg which you could go down to for a few days or a week and then even to 12 and then off maybe. Seems to me it's better safe than sorry in terms of risking withdrawal effects, which seem unpredictable but have really hit home big time for some.
good luck!
zinya
Posted by willie on July 25, 2003, at 7:41:39
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I'm doing fine. The stress level is not so high today as I am on vacation as of 4 o'clock (EST). The stressors are still here at work but this is where I'll leave them, something I've never been able to do before. I'll deal with it when I get back (then I'll be freaking out). That is one thing about effexor xr that I'm most gratefull for. I use to litterally cry or my stomach would get so sore from anxiety that I'd be doubled over. Not a good look in front of your co-workers.
I work 37.5 hrs a week and I do find that working does help eleviate depression. Even if you work a few hours a week, I believe it would be beneficial. I lost my previous job due to them relocating the office so I was unemployed for about 3 months. I found myself slipping deeper into depression during that period. I need to work..even if it comes with stressors...not all stress is bad in my mind.
I drink decaffinated coffee which doesn't help as effexor makes you drowsy but I try to stay away from the caffine so I'll sleep at night. My husband can't figure out why I'm so tired all the time but If I told him it was because of effexor, he'd probably want me to come off.
Anyway..I'll be off the thread until August 6th so I wanted to let you all know so you don't think I went off my wagon. You'll all be in my thoughts and I'll touch base when I get back from Las Vegas!!
Hugs from Canada
Willie
Posted by zinya on July 25, 2003, at 10:46:04
In reply to Re: Hey everyone, posted by willie on July 25, 2003, at 7:41:39
Gosh, Willie, i hear and take joy in your sense of progress!
Have a wonderful vacation! We'll miss you. You so quickly have become such a real treasure here!
wishing you safe and happy travels
love and hugs,
zinya
Posted by catachrest on July 25, 2003, at 11:22:25
In reply to Re: Pssstt......., posted by Dinah on July 25, 2003, at 11:09:03
Hi everyone,
I have a question about side effects with Effexor. I'm acquainted with what they generally are, but I'm curious as to why the medication does this. What are the chemical processes that allow an antidepressant to make me tired, or shaky, or lose my appetite? Just curious.
Susan
Posted by NThompson on July 25, 2003, at 13:18:14
In reply to Re: Effexor - what do u mean by imposter?, posted by mercedes on July 23, 2003, at 14:00:54
Hi there Daph,
I have been away for a few days and just saw your post. You shouldn't feel like an imposter here. This is a place for support. I have been able to say things to people here that I can't tell some friends and family. And the stregth of the RXs isn't what's important. Right now I'm only on 75mg of Effexor and 25mg of Paxil, I do take 50mg of Trazadone at night. But what works for one person doesn't for another. There are people on here who have been battleing depression for years and some for months. Some have gone farther than others, I actually tried suicide and I don't recommend it, but all of us need help and support from people who actually understand what we are all feeling.
So hang in there and feel free to talk about anything hear. We are all here in support for each other, so that we all get better!
Good luck,
Nyia
Posted by zinya on July 25, 2003, at 14:48:23
In reply to Re: Side Effects: why? (For you scientific types), posted by catachrest on July 25, 2003, at 11:22:25
Well, i'm no physiologist but i'll take a stab: I think it's because the drug is a chemical that targets our serotonin, an essential catalyst or something in our daily functioning and presumably, i guess, if in fact we need a serotonin-related drug to "correct" an imbalance we may have, that imbalance is probably one our body has adapted to over a long period of time, and because it -- like hormones too -- affects so much throughout our bodies, things that have adapted to getting by sort of 'on crutches' trying to compensate for a deficiency (of serotonin-processors?), our bodies can react in different ways as it tries to readjust back to normal. In some cases, the same side effects could be because the person didn't really have a serotonin problem and the body may be trying to reject it. I think that's why you have to wait a while (days or weeks) to see over time if the body adjust in a positive way and we start to feel better or if we just keep feeling only the bad side effects.
Similarly, Effexor also works on norepinephrine as well as serotonin, so there's two different systems in our bodies making adjustments though apparently at the beginning it's mostly the serotonin effects we feel first. But then, if i understand correctly, the norepinephrine affects our adrenal system, and obviously adrenalin levels affect all kinds of reactions in our bodies too.
Well, that's about all i can take a stab at, and maybe this isn't what you meant. If somebody knows better or has another idea, please speak up!
:)
zinya
Posted by theo on July 25, 2003, at 16:27:03
In reply to Re: Scooter and anyone who's afraid of upping dose » Scooter1, posted by mercedes on July 23, 2003, at 12:19:22
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 25, 2003, at 19:57:05
In reply to Redirect: Resurect'g Pleasers w/men who are Cont, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:28:04
> Psychological Babble is about psychology and psychological treatments, Psycho-Social-Babble is for general support and "just" being social
And as Dinah mentioned, Psycho-Babble Administration concerns the operation of this site. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030508/msgs/245292.html
Bob
Posted by yankeegirl on July 25, 2003, at 20:28:36
In reply to Redirect: posting policies, posted by Dr. Bob on July 25, 2003, at 19:57:05
Hi Ladies, (I think you are all ladies)
Sigh. There haven't been many posts this afternoon. What are we all thinking? I actually had a SECOND post not show up. Am I doing something wrong? I know I am on the Effexor thread, I get the message that says "your message was posted", I refresh, even log off and log on, and 2 messages did not show up. They were long ones too! Do I have to copy to word as a backup from now on? I'm entering now to see if this posts. Yankeegirl
Posted by Dinah on July 25, 2003, at 21:02:22
In reply to Re: Effexor Club - what do we do now?, posted by yankeegirl on July 25, 2003, at 20:57:07
Dr. Bob just moved them all to Psycho-Social Babble, as is his custom. And the others to Psycho-babble Administration.
And he made a very nice apology to you on Psycho-Social Babble. That alone should be worth a trip there. :)
Thanks for the kind words, Yankeegirl.
Posted by mercedes on July 25, 2003, at 21:15:28
In reply to Effexor Club - what do we do now?, posted by yankeegirl on July 25, 2003, at 20:28:36
YankeeGirl, glad to see you are still here. I've been looking for that other site and other than Susy's post, which was histerical, I've had a bad day with this but as Cher said, we are licking our wounds once again. But we are survivors or at least trying to survive which is what led us to this EFFEXOR site. (I'm on 300mg of Effexor XR just for the record.) However even if I wasn't on medication, I would still have this chemical imbalance in my brain and would like to hear from other's who are having difficulties with dealing with their problems and offer my support If I can. My happyness can go away in an instant which happened today as I was hashing out my anger and guilt within myself and feeling depressed that I may have lost my support group.
Nice to hear from you and glad you're back.
And I'm still here.
Mercedes
Posted by zinya on July 25, 2003, at 21:39:27
In reply to Re: Effexor Club - I'm still here » yankeegirl, posted by mercedes on July 25, 2003, at 21:15:28
hi all
I wrote a long post too earlier today - it was a response to mercedes but to anyone else as well - it also got moved.
I'm just writing to let you all know that mine as well as several others from various ones of us got moved in a lump sum over to the Psycho-Social Babble. They're all together under one post called "Redirect..." and it says it's from Dr. Bob but what it really is is all of our posts from here one after the other inside one big post.
So you can go there to see what we wrote here earlier today which is now no longer permitted on this site unless it's only about Effexor. Anything about the rest of our lives is getting moved to the other site. Look for us there and/or write to Cher's e-mail as she suggested in her post to Yankee and we could also all exchange e-mails too if we wind up preferring...
It's been a very unexpectedly disruptive day to the sense of security and groupness, so some of us have just kind of petered out for a while
love and hugs,
zinya
Posted by NThompson on July 25, 2003, at 22:08:50
In reply to Effexor Club - what do we do now?, posted by yankeegirl on July 25, 2003, at 20:28:36
Good Evening Yankeegirl,
Sometimes I have problems with that. I have to go all the way out of the website and then go back in. When I do that I see the posts I have sent. I hope your day is going well.
Hope that works,
Nyia
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