Posted by alexandra_k on May 16, 2005, at 1:59:36
In reply to Re: I'm afraid » alexandra_k, posted by Damos on May 15, 2005, at 22:30:32
> > I know I have issues
> What, and like the rest of us don't?Heh heh. No. The rest of you do too... :-)
But THIS IS ALL ABOUT ME MWAH!
:-)
> > I'm a little too literal
> One suspects that your area of study demands precision of thinking and exact and explicit meaning =0)Yeah. It does. But it doesn't say one has to LIVE there all the time. But to be fair... I suppose most of us do. Generally it doesn't worry me too much. But I do think it alienates me from people a lot of the time...
> > Too picky with phrasing
> Again probably only symptomatic of the above and your own high standards ;-)mmm.
I guess ever since I was little I demanded to know
WHY???
Why did my life suck so much?
Why was I so unhappy all the time?
What the hell was wrong with my mother?
What the hell was wrong with me?
What did I even have to exist for in the first place?
I think philosophy is what tends to happen when you ask 'why?' a few too many times...But then I guess I am a bit strange with it...
I remember in High School when they were trying to teach us Biology in the 5th form. I figured out that biological systems were just complex arrangements of chemicals. We couldn't do chemistry till the 6th form. I figured I didn't need to worry about what they were teaching us in Biology - because when we learned about chemistry the biological truths would just 'fall out' of that. And then when I went to do chemistry I figured that the same thing was true with physics. Then I found out physics was math and thought 'well sh*t, I've stuffed it up now - I wish someone had told me that in the third form!!!' Then when I got to uni I learned all about how 'reductionism' (the idea that the truths of one science completely hang on the truths of another) was probably false and I was really really hacked off. Whopsie. I wish someone had told me that a little earlier...
> > Too incomprehensible
> Can only speak for myself here and say that some of it is hard going, largely due to not having really used my brain in 2 decades and having had a very average education. It is not you that is incomprehensible because your explanations allow me to begin to understand complex things I would not have otherwise even considered, and your posts never make me feel dumb.:-)
I don't know...
Sometimes people say it isn't very understandable because it doesn't make sense. That has been fairly convincingly argued by some philosophers even... And then the continental philosophers think analytic philosophers (my variety) are too picky worrying themselves to death about picky distinctions that don't matter to anything at all.
> > Too much into stuff that nobody gives a sh*t about or understands anyway.I worry that I don't understand it half the time.
I worry that it doesn't even make sense half the time.
I worry that we create our own problems by making the distinctions we make in the first place.
Of course we only create them to solve some problem or other.
But then they tend to create a whole lot more problems...
So it is hard to see whether we are digging ourselves in or out...
> I was actually going to ask for your recommended Top 10 philosophical reads for an absolute beginner because what you write has sparked a long denied interest and I would like to understand more and be able to engage in conversation with you from something other than complete ignorance :-)Hmm. I'd start with Nagel "What does it all mean?" I've already given you the chapter on the problem of knowledge (how we know anything outside our minds). Nagel's book is special because it introduces you to the problems in a (relatively) clear and comprehensible way. He also doesn't make reference to any particular philosophers. He doesn't aim to give you a lesson in the history of philosophy. More to give you the spirit of the problems. He talks about the problem of knowledge, the problem of other minds (how we know whether there are any), meaning, free will, the meaning of life, whether death is the end, right and wrong, justice. It is pretty good. Should be able to pick it up fairly cheap too. Other than that... Hmm. The txt book that we use really sux. It's going at the end of this year. Well, it isn't too bad. Elliot Sober "Core Questions in Philosophy". He is fairly good on mind and Descartes - but not so flash on ethics and phil of religion if you are into those. He is into phil of biology and that colours his thinking a lot. He says a lot of stupid things - but it is a good platform for class discussion. You are better to read simple articles and look at some problems. I could probably find some links of the internet. That would probably be the best place to start...
Analytic philosophy is aka 'problem solving philosophy'. The idea is to take a problem, show why the attempts to solve it have failed, and then (ideally) go on to solve it yourself.
So seminars are usually a brief summary of the state of things so far and basically trying to describe what the problem is and why it is such a problem. Then you are supposed to have a go at solving it. Then everyone tries to discredit your solution as best they can for 40 minutes or so and anything left standing is considered 'not bad'.
Continental philosophy OTOH is more like 'history of ideas'. You tend to learn what people have said and answer problems in a 'Sartre said... so it must be true' kind of way. They worry more about interpreting txts in a way that makes them out to be true and plausible. IMO it is more of an art. The art of 'interpretation'. Whereas analytic philosophy is more 'critical thinking'. Analytic philosophers like to think of themselves as being on a continuum with the natural sciences. And you can test for coherence of theory etc by seeing whether they can be implemented as computer programmes (for example). I don't know an awful lot about that... But I wish I did.
> You should know that even though I may not engage in a thread you have started, I often spend hours googling as a result of them.
:-)
Hey now, don't blame me for your internet habits!!
<joke>
> > I want to say 'I can't help it'
> > But I probably can
> > And possibly...
> > I should.
>
> You are you, and we expect you to be nothing and no-one else.:-)
>There is much to admire in the passion, intensity and intelligence with which you post. You combine these with kindness, caring, love, support, tenderness, innocence and wisdom as well.
Aw. Now I'm blushing...
> > But then...
> > Who am I
> > ???
>
> You are someone who is amazingly precious to all of us in babbleland. You are my friend, You are Sarah's aunty Alex. You are someone who is greatly loved and cared about.:-)
> > I do feel like a cardboard cut out sometimes
> There are days I don't even feel that whole.
>
> > A stereotype
> > But the others are no better
> > And we are mutually inconsistent
> > So what is to be done?
>
> Is there an internal struggle between how you see your self, how they've labelled and categorised you, how you're expected to be and how you want to be???Hmm. I am a cardboard cut out. A caricature of a person. I feel like that a lot. The label seems to capture that, I suppose. But that doesn't help me, it doesn't help me at all. I guess I just need to get back to not caring. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. I guess I am the way I am because I am somewhat driven... One track mind... There is something that drives me and that sort of is narrow and may well alienate me but it is my life and I CHOSE for it to me by life and I WANT it to be my life so FTW I am alright. I don't care.
:-)
> > Maybe I need a holiday.
> > To do what?
> > To work on my thesis
> > sigh
> > Theres no hope for me
>
> You may well be right, but working on your thesis doesn't qualify as a holiday. A holiday would be a break from everything, time to lay in a feild and stare at the sky, watch the grass grow, read Enid Blyton or Harry Potter. A time to do what you want for you and you only. Not because you have to, not because you need to. Just because you feel like it.Well...
Funnily enough I'd actually like to be working on my thesis at the moment...
Really.
:-)> Puppy and me have high hopes for you. No expectations or needs just high hopes.
>
> (((((Alex)))))Thanks Damos.
:-)
I feel a lot better now.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:498245
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050513/msgs/498388.html