Posted by madwand on November 14, 2003, at 21:42:00
In reply to Re: Los Benzos in Mexico and Andrew Solomon, posted by Destroyo on November 13, 2003, at 20:19:36
Hello Destroyo,
A belated "welcome" to the board -- you certainly bring a different perspective to things! (I am relatively new here myself).
For the record, I don't believe you are "advocating" suicide per se and hopefully it will not be construed as such. However, I believe that the approach to it which you describe is really antithetical to depression and hopefully I will be able to convey why.
As an aside, perhaps my outlook here is a bit "off", since I am prone to depression but for some reason have never felt "suicidal" per se (even in the "low" phases). In fact my relationship with death is rather peculiar (although that subject is best reserved for another post).
Anyway, I see suicide due to depression as an ultimate admission of defeat. The pain has become too much -- you are licked. However, what you seem to be describing is something different -- an assertion to the universe that the decision as to whether to continue existing (at least in this form) is *yours* and yours alone. And the paradox is that, thus empowered, you will probably never have to actually end your life! It is as if by reserving wholly to yourself the choice to die you affirm your choice to live -- something akin to the Jungian integration of the shadow.
An interesting example (which unfortunately did result in the person's demise, but it helps to illustrate the "energy" I talking about) comes from an episode in a book I read a while back. The person in question had her weapon drawn as the enemy entered the room. She fought valiantly but was completely outnumbered. Finally the leader of the enemy had her backed up against the window and said, "It's over -- I will kill you now!". She calmly replied, "No, you won't", and jumped out the window (to her death).
Are most of us likely to face a scenario like that? Probably not. But consider the difference in outlook of what one would do if it became clear that depression was "going to win". One could know that in that case one would "give up" and be defeated. Or, one could know that in the face of that final defeat one would, like woman in the story above, be victorious -- *choosing* one's death bravely rather than "accepting" it. And from that space of empowerment depression does not have to win at all -- you essentially grasp the power of death itself by the hilt and turned it to your own defense!
Hopefully I have not gone too far afield from what you had in mind (but perhaps we are both engaged in the synergistic "thinking out loud" that you refer to further down thread). And do I hope you stick around (even if your reaction is that I am completely full of it <g>).Michael
poster:madwand
thread:279044
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20031113/msgs/279896.html