Posted by trouble on January 30, 2002, at 11:12:54
In reply to ANTIDOTE TO Dialectical Behavior Therapy, posted by trouble on January 30, 2002, at 11:04:43
> I'm being very borderline about this DBT therapy. Black/white, all good/all bad, etc.
> Thanks for your description, that's exactly what I'd say if I could be lucid about it. Better to recommend a book that made me long for the kind of treatment described within.
> It's caalled PTSD/borderlines IN THERAPY, Finding the Balance by Jerome Kroll. It cost 40 dollars but to me it was worth it. He's so astute, I mean close the book and stare ito space smart, he's a humble skeptic, and he has that old-school attitude I trust, ie psychology is an exploration, it is about questions not answers. In over 20 years of non-stop therapy that's always who helps me, the ones who don't know for certain, so that's what I believe- answers in psychology are red flags, but today that's practically all you find-the Way, the Truth and the Life; research supported Religion.
> I read Dr. Kroll's book as an inspired introduction to my rude, rotten BPD self. He SO has the Borderline's number- and not in the goddamn behavioral sense like the other experts-what's so hard about describing Borderline behavior and labeling it dysfunctional? Plus, he proposes that BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER become a manifestation of PTSD, and the research has always been there to show the two conditions are co-occuring. He's not a conspiracy theorist but I sure as hell am and I can come up w/ plenty reasons why BPD is not a subset of PTSD. Obviously the latter is an insult, the former a reaction to external trauma, you poor thing. No stigma.
>
> Basically, Dr. Kroll's book about 20 case studies shows what's going on inside me, that's where I need my healers to go, and CBT therapies won't go there. So how am I going to stop the insane and fantastical projections and transferences that characterize the Borderline? It's a compulsion, the patterns repeat as if they have a life of their own. This is psychodynamic territory.
> I've never met a Borderline who wasn't deep as an abyss, and personally I don't trust the intellect of un-movable CBT therapists-- talk to them, have a cappucino w/ them man to man and you'll find that evil categorical thinking mode I've lambasted in previous posts.
> You know who understands Borderlines? Shakespeare, Sexton, Dostoyevsky, Chekhov, Raymond Carver, David Lynch, rock-n-roll. What do the DTB therapists read? Non-fiction. DEALBREAKER!! Nothing against Thich Nhat Hanh. But wellness, exclusively? The good and the nice as a defense, perhaps? What are those consciousness/recovery/self-help books if not proscriptive? Eat your vegetables, they're good for you. Pardon me, I've got some acting out to do. My DBT group made me more out of control than usual (I just read a journal article that said this outcome is not un-common) And I still don't know why, but my therapists were humorless, and I understand Marcia Linehan believes humor is crucial in doing her therapy. It might have helped.
>
> And w/out "process" I don't know or trust what someone's trying to accomplish. My subjectivity is irrelevant? Or are you too stupid to take a stab at the intra-psychic realm? I saw too many extreme affective states going ignored in my group, it made me so angry I'd do instant therapy during the break trying to contextualize my co-member's guilt and depression while the therapists focused solely on ways they could remind themselves to follow the techniques. One night people stood in line to speak to me, why? I let them off the hook!
> Anyway thanks for giving me a chance to "process" my 12 weeks of DBT. I'm sure it's a fine addition to the protocol of people ready to learn about new and healthier ways of being, but I just wish they'd call it therapy for yoga students or something instead of shoving it down the throats of me and my kind, who are devious, manipulative, complex loonies.
> Therapy from a manual, Good Lord what next, accreditation from a family of chimps?
>
> > It's an adaptation of cognitive behavior therapy designed for borderline, suicidal, and self injurious patients. It combines CBT with eastern philosophy (mindfulness, wise mind, etc.). It also has some components relating to dealing with this group of patients (for instance, they encourage calls between sessions rather than discourage them). I wouldn't change my current therapist, but I wouldn't mind learning emotional regulation and distress tolerance skills which seem to be central to DBT. I've got the book, the training manual, and both videos and I'm trying to learn what is useful to me from those. Of course, since I'm doing it on my own, I sort of stop and start with it depending on my mood. That would be the point of doing it in a group, I think.
> > Of course I could tell you more, far more, about it. :) But I won't bore you. But I am interested in seeing if it's useful in the real world, with real people.
poster:trouble
thread:17445
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020125/msgs/17537.html