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Re: Eros and Thanatos » James K

Posted by alexandra_k on January 17, 2006, at 17:49:44

In reply to Re: Eros and Thanatos » alexandra_k, posted by James K on January 17, 2006, at 16:42:11

> ---Is the part in brackets you speaking/thinking?

Yep.

> ---Does Klein introduce the idea of two seperate drives instead of two manifestations of the same drive (libido)

She seems to consider the 'destructive / agressive instinct' to be a seperate drive from the 'life instinct', yup. Freud seems to consider the 'death instinct' to be a seperate drive from the 'life instinct' as well. So they seem to be in agreement as to their being two drives. They seem to agree over the 'life instinct' but seem to disagree over the precise nature of the second drive (death as opposed to destruction).

> ---Now this is definitely you talking here.

Yep.

> I'm not clear if you are wondering about adopting Klein as your belief or if you are postulating a new version of the old ideas.

I was wondering whether we can make do with a single drive rather than positing two different drives.

So...

----------------------------->
libido

Sounds a lot like Darwins notion of survival and reproduction to me... If there is a mismatch between the object of the drive (what one needs / desires) and reality then that could produce the energy for the psychic structures... But maybe I need to wait and see the role that the death instinct / destructive impulse is supposed to play in the theory.

I think... That you can redescribe a 'death wish' as loss of hope that your libido drive can be fulfilled. You can redescribe war as the drive to preserve your society / way of life. Agressiveness as hunting (libido drive) or not appreciating the destruction to you and others around you...

But thats just what I'm thinking.

Probably need to wait and see...

> ---One of the reasons I quit school 20 years ago was because when I was expected to analyze the ideas of the great thinkers, I was overwhelmed. What can I offer to what the greatest minds have written about Plato, Shakespeare, Freud etc.

Well. They just offer their opinion. And nobody has it all worked out. Different theorists have different good points and different failings. Often it is about trying to synthesise the good points into a coherent theory that avoids the failings. But at the end of the day you end up with just another opinion yup :-)

> --- One of the things I'm hearing is thantanos can be used against others in war or conflict, but in the abscence of above conflict, It can be used against ourselves.

Yeah. So everybody needs to have an enemy so that the death instinct is serving the life instinct? I don't like that. I don't think people need to have enemies in order to be psychologically healthy. In fact... I would think that absence of enemies could be healthier... But maybe the death instinct is supposed to be reduced via the process of therapy? Nope. Still don't like it.

> In practical terms I need to focus on Eros. Is this how maladaptive coping skills enter the picture.

Yeah. I don't see how we need a death instinct / a destructive instinct. I don't see what it buys us that can't be explained in terms of the life instinct.

 

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