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Re: Posters on this board » willyee

Posted by alexandra_k on March 12, 2005, at 1:11:42

In reply to Re: Posters on this board, posted by willyee on March 11, 2005, at 1:08:49

> Well this is my view...we are presented with the notion by the industry,the docters and phar companys that emotional disorder,depression,anxiety,ocd, etc are bio-chemical imbalances,not a flaw in character.

Sure. I don't think that it is a flaw in character. But therapy, and skills learned in therapy can affect neurophysiological changes.

> OK,if this is what they are presenting,and if this is what we are to rely on,then would these disorders not be a pyhscial disorder,as a seizure is,or parkins,would a chemical problem not mean there are pyhsicals attributes in the brain,not working correctly,and that the medication helps adjust these chemicals to a somewhat normal state.

Yes. Though medication is not the only way to alter brain chemistry.

> If this is the case,how would talk therapy be anything but harmful as an alternate option to a person clincialy distressed by one of these disorders.

I wasn't advocating that people throw away their medications and get themselves into therapy. I was suggesting that if people are having difficulty finding a suitable medication then it might be worth seeing whether anything aside from meds can give them some relief. Also when people are unable to access the medication they believe they need then maybe it is worth seeing whether anything aside from meds can give them some relief. Also that therapy may enable the meds to be more effective.

>If its chemical then its not logical disease,it is a very real pyhsical disease,and having a person not take a pyshical medication but instead seek a logical treatment to treat a pyhscial disorder be malpractive,and endangering the patient?

There is two way interaction between 'mind' and 'body'. So, for example if you are talking about something you are very frightened of then you may find your heart starts to beat faster, you start perspiring, your pupils dialate or whatever. Talking and thinking about what you are afraid of can result in adrenalin being released into your body, for example. That is just a simple example to show you that talking can affect physiological changes. People have been taught (via biofeedback devices) to slow down their heart rate by 'thinking about it' or by 'learning how to will it to be so'. This is helpful with respect to people who are at risk of heart attack preventing themselves from having a heart attack. You might think that heart attack is a physical problem and people just need to take their medication but a combination of biofeedback training and medication is more effective then either one alone.

> I mean wouldent it be a very bad thing to try to treat a parkinson patient with talk therpay instead of meds.

I don't know enough about parkinsons. I am not advocating that people have to pick one or the other. Meds or therapy. Evidence has shown that a combination of both is more effective than either strategy alone for a number of conditions. If meds are helping people then I am most certainly not advocating that people stop them.

> I have heard rebuttals where talk therapy makes changes in brain pattterns,im sorry,i can not buy this at all,i can not see how talk therpay can alter a pyshical defect in a brain,if this was the case then talk therapy should be a option for any brain trauma.Of course its not.

Stroke victims spring to mind... People can have a lesion where part of their brain has died. That is a physical defect in the brain. Sometimes they can't do certain tasks because that part of their brain has been damaged. But the brain can adapt. New parts can take over old function. We might think that people with mental illness will never really get any better. All that can be hoped for is that they can be maintained on medications. But maybe the brain can learn new tricks. Talk can help. Talk is what helps peoples brains learn how to speak again, for instance.

> Now i can see someone valueing therapy with a medication,simply because it helps them to have support,and thats great,any thing excersie a friend a therapy etc that can help a person deal with the disease better is great.

Yeah. Some people try therapy and find it just isn't that helpful for them. That is fine. I just think that there are techniques etc that people typically learn in therapy that can help. Can help with stuff like sleep, anxiety, pain management especially. But you don't have to go to therapy to learn about those techniques.

> But once again if we are gonna present our main theory as these being clinical bio-chemical disorders,then i dont understand how we can offer talk therapy,a very non-pyhscial therapy approach as treatment,it just doesent provide logic.

Talk is physical. To put it crudely talk is sound waves which travel through the air then into your ear to be 'transduced' (translated) into neural signals. Thinking about different things, doing different things does result in a change in your brain processes. It is just a matter of whether those ones that are distressing to you / others can be stopped. There really is still so very much we don't know. All I mean to say is that talk can alter behaviour. It can alter how we feel (start talking about sad things and after a while you will feel sad). That isn't a problem for the idea that mental illness is a legitimate phenomena. Maybe thats what you are worried about.

> When i did not take meds,and instead used techniques from therapy,my life was a horrid mess.

Don't stop taking meds if they help you.
I never meant to advocate that.

> However,for CLINICAL "BIO-CHEMICAL" disorders such as clinical anxiety,clincial depression,clinical insomnia,....well therapy as a effective TREATMENT makes about as much sense as using it to treat parkinson,seizure,diabetes,narcolepys,or any brain trauma.

But that doesn't account for its proven effectiveness for clinical depression, insomnia, anxiety, and also pain management / relief.

 

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