Posted by JenStar on July 24, 2004, at 13:06:31
In reply to Re: more rollercoaster, posted by tabitha on July 23, 2004, at 1:33:23
hi Tabitha,
sorry about the bad experience! I want to offer my viewpoint, but carefully, b/c I definitely don't want to offend you. Please feel free to ignore my stuff if it doesn't "fit." :)When I read about an experience like yours in group, lots of questions come to mind (that probably can't be answered easily.)
Does the T have an ulterior motive in group? i.e., is she interested in watching the group dynamics unfold, much like a scientist calmly observing lab rats? Is she curious to see how the dominant personalities overwhelm the gentler ones, and who takes charge, who retreats, how people band together? And because this is so interesting, is she really doing everything possible to 'fix' the issues, rather than observe them?
Is the T (or anyone!) really qualified to watch a group interact and offer the best advice to EVERYONE on how best to get along? If it were so easy to do this, wouldn't our society be more peaceful now? (rhetorical questions, I'm sure!)Or..is the T trying to help you become more defensive of yourself in a positive way; trying to help you turn a mean person into a nice one using the powers of persuasion and negotiation?
This one would be the most positive option, of course. To that end, is she offering you advice on how to mend the rift, how to listen effectively, how to use "I" statements? Does she offer techniques for dealing with difficult people? Has she offered to sit down with the 2 of you and hash it all out?
I've been a manager for years, and some of the most difficult problems are not the technical ones, but the interpersonal ones. As a manager it's so important to help people get along, to understand different viewpoints, and to coexist somewhat peacefully when they're just not going to like each other at heart. Obviously people management and group therapy are very different, but moderating ANY group successfully, I think, involves some of the same techniques.
Hopefully your T is trying to do help the relationship.
I know I was kind of blunt in a previous post where I urged you to be Donald Trump and say "you're fired" if the T isn't good for you. I was kind of being funny, although I realized it really isn't that simple.
I just hope this T is doing more good than harm, and that group is a helpful place and not just a social experiment.
Keep in mind that some people ARE just mean and manipulative. They know how to take a kernel of truth and twist it, exaggerate it, play on it and your weaknesses (b/c they know how to press buttons!) to make you feel weak and guilty. Maybe Mean Woman is good at that. Just because she starts with a piece of truth, it doesn't mean that everything she says is right. She may be one of those people who like to see the world as "you're with her or you're against me."
Trust your instincts. If this person is just a jerk, don't stand for the rude behavior. i can't say that I know you well, obviously, but you seem sweet and kind and thoughtful from your posts. It makes me mad to think of this mean woman b***ing and complaining, and the T not nipping it in the bud.
Anyway, I know my ideas may not be on the mark, but I do care and I hope things get better.
JenStar
> Well, that positive glow lasted only a day, then all the insults came to mind, and I couldn't help comparing the severity of them to one thing I had said a couple weeks ago, that the T encouraged me to offer an apology about, after MW (yup, I'm calling her Mean Woman again tonight) made an issue of it. What I said wasn't even an insult, it was just a challenging question, and not about her at all, though I recognize it came from a defensive place in me. She said some awful things, criticisms, accusations, and in an angry, even contemptous voice. A whole load of stuff. An onslaught. I don't even want to repeat it here for fear someone might agree with her. I know some of those criticisms will stay with me, and anytime in the future I'm doing what she criticized, they'll come up again. It will take me a long time to shake them off.
>
> I started thinking my positive outlook that I posted here was some kind of desperate effort on my part to make what happened be OK. Like that syndrome where people fall in love with their kidnappers, or when kids make excuses for their abusive family. Or like I'm so desperate for approval from the T and to succeed in the group, I'm ignoring my own pain to get it.
>
> My T tells me I need to have boundaries against stuff like this and not let it in to hurt me. She tells me that MW isn't seeing me clearly, she has dirty glasses on, and she has incomplete information about me. I get that, it's a good idea, but I don't seem able to do it consistently or completely. I'd really rather some stranger in the street shouted at me or cussed at me-- I'd know that had nothing to do with me. MW's stuff has just enough of a grain of truth in it to make me doubt myself.
>
> Then I worry I'm actually exposing myself to abuse, and not taking care of myself, because no matter what they say it is, it feels like abuse to me.
>
> So in my individual session once again I was ready to tell her I'm quitting group, quitting therapy, walking away to take care of myself.
>
> We argued quite a bit about it. At least she admitted that MW was attacking me, that it's escalating, that she's attacking because she's hurt by what I said about her. I still couldn't fully understand why this is necessary or valuable. I asked for more tips on how to not let this get to me. I'm not sure if her suggestions were helpful or not.
>
> Then at the very end I told her how I'd felt so hopeful and positive for a whole day after the session. She brightened up and said that was my adult or my higher self or something, and those were the new ideas, and it was hard not to fall back to the old thinking. So I told her that high lasted only a day, and it wasn't a grounded feeling-- it was like I'd abandoned my little girl and left her there to feel abused, while I was off with my new thinking seeing the whole situation as OK somehow.
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> I realized that's pretty much what's been causing the rollercoaster. I can sign up to these new ideas, I can believe in Bizzarro World for a day or so, but meanwhile my little girl is still feeling abused, and then abandoned, because I'm off with my new ideas, where everything's OK. But she still feels hurt. So then I flip back into the old thinking.
>
> So my T tried to tell me how to keep the new ideas, and comfort her at the same time, so I don't have to flip-flop I'm not sure I got it entirely, but I think we're on the right track.
poster:JenStar
thread:368465
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040723/msgs/369975.html