Posted by 64bowtie on May 10, 2004, at 15:01:50
In reply to Re: Now we see the violins inheriting the system!, posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 19:53:21
> [Sorry about that non-sequitur...]>
<<<I think in non-sequiturs so I didn't notice...lol
> Rod, if Piaget's beliefs (and how Americans misappropriated them to boot) went astray, it was in linking overt behaviors too tightly to underlying neurological structures and some sort of irreversible developmental progress altering those structures.
<<<...as I understand it, he was railing at the neo-shrinks of his day. Again, as I see it, he would applaud Damasio, Penrose, and the best and the brightest of "neuro-folk" for there successes. He could only imply what they have discovered categorically, since he lacked the inventions that have brought so much out of the darness and into the light.
>What distinguishes shame from guilt?
>
<<< One school of thought is that shame is a kind of guilt. Blame is guilt for what you do and shame is guilt for who you are. I like this as a tool to point out the antithesis of who you are is what you do (or did). It appears that until we separate who we are from what we do (or did), we can't find freedom because we are trapped by our deeds.> Experience is what differentiates children's and adults' thinking.
>
<<< You are conveniently leaving out genetic clocks, stored in the process regions of the chain molecule (little studied and less understood till the last five years). They have been linked to the feeling nature of children's memory storage, being replaced in adolescence by the picture nature (analogy or metaphor) of adult memory storage. I for one don't only store my memories as pictures, but sometimes as multiple transparencies deep, to create a resultant image when I look down through them. Do ask me why me. I must be a "freak of nature", (prone to self-deprecating humor).> So where's the freedom in that? (It's there) What sort of ownership can we have over a thought? (It's there, too, but they're both in the culture, not our wiring).
>
<<< Sad if you inferred that I said "wiring gives us freedom". Only what we do with changes to our wiring can ensure freedom and personal power. Our behaviors and emotions can be context appropriate more effective as adults when we notice and honor the change that was inexorable. It happened! Are we gonna deny and wallow in our dysfunction of trying to be an adult with childhood values, status, and expectations? I suggestion we find our "sea-legs" as adults and mix feelings and logic to our problem solving strategy.*** Sidenote: I continue to hear all around me, "Problem solving? I ain't got no problems to solve! what are you talking about?" Yet, when I challenge cleints to start looking for problems and conflicts happening like grenades going off all around them, they invariably report back that they apologise. They had no idea what a problem or a conflict was. They were looking for a 9/11 episode, not what to do for lunch. Disagreements are conflicts. Because we don't remember them, we think they got solved. Look more closely. If you find a pattern of coercion, look out!
> PS. (your comment about people "in the know", knew)
>
<<< I was clear to say, "...in the street". Also, let me point out that Gallileo was in Italy in the 1500's and under house arrest for spouting off against those "in the know", that the Sun was the center of the universe....., in the 1500's.
poster:64bowtie
thread:345158
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040503/msgs/345444.html