Posted by bleauberry on October 28, 2007, at 16:56:49
In reply to PB Big brains-) Tryptophan or 5-HTP ? F google :P, posted by Marty on October 28, 2007, at 13:00:06
> Tryptophan or 5-HTP ?
>
> What would be your Arguments and Experiences with them ?
>
> MartyFor either, it depends on if you have low serotonin to begin with. They are a good test to find out. If you have low serotonin, you should feel them in a way you like very quickly.
Tryptophan or 5htp preference will vary from person to person. One will work better for some but not others. Trial and error.
Tryptophan will not work well if there is some biochemical roadblock in its conversion process. Tryptophan has to first convert to 5htp before it converts to serotonin. It also converts to many other things besides serotonin, and depending on biochemical factors very little of it may actually end up being serotonin. Varies from person to person. Common roadblocks to proper conversion are vitamin status, heavy metals (I personally suspect this is a hugely overlooked factor in psychiatry), and genetic defects. Also, too many proteins will interfere. There are limited seats on the bus to cross the brain barrier, and tryptophan is crowded out by other proteins. For maximum entry in the brain and maximum conversion, you want to take tryptophan between meals and take it with sugars or carbs which will speed it across the brain barrier and help win the fight against competing proteins. Orange juice is a good busride for tryptophan.
5htp will cross the brain barrier readily regardless of any roadblocks. It will convert directly to serotonin. Most people recommend taking it with B vitamins and C. In my own experience, that will convert much of it to serotonin in the body before it ever gets in the brain. Serotonin in the body cannot cross the brain barrier where it is needed. Get 5htp in the brain by avoiding vitamins for at least 6 hours before 5htp dosing. 5htp does need vitamins to convert to serotonin, but there are plenty in food additives and normal diets to do that. I get serious sexual side effects worse than any drugs when I take 5htp with vitamins, but no side effects at all when I take it by itself, showing me that vitamins do indeed convert 5htp to serotonin in the body before it gets to the brain, and there is little left to get in the brain.
How long do either tryptophan or 5htp last? That can make treatment tricky. One person takes a low dose once every two days. Another needs it once every 6 hours. One person does better with it at night. Another better in the daytime.
Serotonin converts to melatonin, which causes sleepiness and is also very depressing to a lot of people. If your genetics convert too much serotonin to melatonin, it won't feel good. A better balance might be to take a low dose of trypt or 5htp, and then keep the serotonin at work longer with a low dose of st johns wort or low dose ssri drug.
5htp or tryptophan? Just depends on a lot of things. Trial and error is the only way to find out.
Dosing. Most naturopaths recommend 5htp 200mg to 300mg a day. Tryptophan 1000mg to 6000mg a day. Those to me are huge massive doses. But one guy does best at 5htp 400mg (4000mg tryptophan equivilant if converted properly). Me, I find 12.5mg to 25mg is just about right for a great sleep. 50mg is a bit much and leaves me dull and tired all the next day. 3 days at 50mg a day makes me more depressed than I started.
Either 5htp or tryptophan have huge potential. If not quite right by themselves, they can be respectfully combined with low doses of serotonin reuptake inhibiting drugs or herbs. Regardless of how much serotonin we make, maybe our biochemistries just chew it up faster than we can make it. Or maybe no matter how much reuptake inhibition we provide, there just isn't enough serotonin to begin with for any therapeutic level of reuptake inhibition to take place.
Trial and error. Hope this info will help guide you along the journey. Not sure how daring or cautious you are, but me, I started with 12.5mg 5htp and worked up after that. I tried tryptophan at 250mg, worked up to 1000mg, and felt lousy the whole time. Others love it. Only one way to find out.
poster:bleauberry
thread:791971
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20070923/msgs/792029.html