Posted by madhatter on March 25, 2007, at 18:31:14
In reply to Re: Orthomolecular treatment for bipolar disorder, posted by Squiggles on March 22, 2007, at 14:44:07
>
> ----Well, that is the miraculous thing about bipolar disorder, unlike the depressive illnesses-- once you give lithium for example, ALL the diverse symptoms disappear. Infact, it is astounding how lithium targets both the severe depression, and the mania at the same time. It is a magic bullet, and regarding the symptomatology of this illness, by the fruits of the treatment you can know it.
>
>
> >
> > Some treatments work for some people, but not for others. Orthomolecular treatments do work. But not predictably so.
>
>
> ----Then I think it is not science, right;
>
>
> You still have to do the experiments. The only scientific way to demonstrate absence of benefit from orthomolecular treatment is to never try. All the rest is statistics, with all attendent fallacies (type 1/type 2 error, sampling bias, blah blah blah).
>
> Squiggles
>Well for someone who claims to take a scientific approach, you make some pretty unscientific claims here, Squiggles. Lithium is not a cure but a treatment and it certainly is not a magic bullet. It only works for some people and not others. I'm glad it works for you, it did not for me. It can also have serious side effects when used long term and has a narrow toxicity range.
Used as a maintenance treatment for preventative purposes there is good evidence for it being useful for preventing manic episodes (in people with classic euphoric mania)but not for preventing depressive episodes (Lamatrogine has the best research basis for preventing depressive episodes).
My manic phases tend to be mixed and/or dysphoric in nature, and according to the research lithium os not so great for people with this symptom profile.Perhaps that is why I had breakthrough manic episodes while on lithium despite having blood levels within the therepeutic range.
I have been managing bipolar disorder for many years. when lithium didn't work, I was trialed on other stuff such as sodium valporate, carbanazapine and also had breakthrough episodes on these. When it became obvious that none of these were doing what they were supposed to do my shrink put me on zyprexa for maintenance, which within six months had me 30 kilos heavier and borderline diabetic (interesting that Ely Lilly's second most profitable drug after zyprexa is for diabetes!)Then she switched me to rispiradone which made me lactate and still kept the weight increase going.
These meds the docs are experimenting with, and many people are on multiple combinations of drugs which have NO long term scientific research to back them up and serious long term side-effects. We are experimental guinea pigs. Mainstream med approaches ALSO do not work consistantly for all people, so in your terms it is not science.
Some people have been effectively so brainwashed that it is impossible to seperate the placebo effect from the treatment effect, and your grandiose claims for lithium as the magic bullet reek of manic symptomology.
poster:madhatter
thread:744029
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20070320/msgs/744195.html