Posted by raybakes on October 27, 2004, at 5:58:52
In reply to Re: Help needed with cholinergic drug reactions? » raybakes, posted by tealady on October 25, 2004, at 22:42:34
>
> I'm not sure Ray.
> I spoke to Larrian on the net (she was a gyno-urologist) about this at the time and she said it was probably a combo of things..one linked to the fact that the bladder neck has numerous thyroid receptors ..which I guess maybe somehow reacted to the T3 in Armour. ..beats me.
> I think the T3 helps with contraction of the bladder neck..but why one can't voluntarily release when you first encounter the T3 in Armour beats me...
> (Larrian thought it may be related also to nerve damage from childbirth..years b4,combined with the T3 receptors in the bladder neck..she could be right, beyond me)Think I'm out of my depth here! This abstract says that hyperthyroid increases bladder emptying, hypo reduces....but not in your case! saw some references to antidepressants, inhibiting bladder emptying because of receptors for monoamine neurotransmitters in the bladder, and also the antagonism of acetylchloline.
Nitric oxide appears to be important...
'Physiologic role of nitric oxide and nitric oxide synthase in female lower urinary tract.'
with regard to t3 and cholinesterase, it seems that t3 upregulates both the production and degradation of acetylcholine. In your case perhaps the production side has failed, but degradation is still occuring, degrading acetylcholine faster than you can make it?
Have you ever tried the sugar mannose? it can help remove bacteria from the bladder and unriary tract, to help with bladder conditions.
>
> Back to the MAIN point..
> I have got around to buying some soy lecithin...which will give me some choline and presumably some additional acetylcholine..B5 makes acetylCoA that transports the acetyl to the choline....manganese is needed too. Hope it helps!
> Now DO I want it? LOL..
> Like am I short on acetylcholine or do I have to much now?? <grin>Who knows!!! sounds like too little, but maybe not!
> My ADH (vasopressin) came back too low (0.6) and that was on one of my highest oestrogen days in the month(oestrogen is supposed to raise ADH)...which fits in with my thirst , together with low urine osmalality and high serum osmalility(extracellular). ..so it's looking like my main problem is squished cells maybe?yesterday posted some info about hyaluronan, a sugar that hold 1000 times it's own weight in water, to help hyrdrate cells - it's what holds the synovial fluid together in joints. Betaine and taurine are also 'osmolytes'.
Have heard that the immune system doesn't like squished cells, and destroys them, causing inflammation, free radicals and more squished cells! - hydrating them might get their shape back?
here's an abstract about how hyaluronan is involved in fluid regulation - not sure if it would be good or bad for you.. 50% of the body's hyaluronan is in the skin, and helps stop wrinkling of the skin. Other sugars are important in kidney and skin structure, also in the regulation of the immune system too - blood groups are only different because of the sugars attached
> Apparently to make ADH one needs Acetylcholine..so I was just trying to work it out, sigh.I did see an abstract that said acetylcholine metabolism can inhibit the actions of ADH - didn't see one that mentioned it's production.
Although not your condition, this abstract talks about the interactions of adh with thyroid etc...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11228040
Hope some of the info might help..Ray
poster:raybakes
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/407794.html