Posted by tealady on October 24, 2003, at 9:53:56
In reply to Re: Fluoride ....matt and jan » Larry Hoover, posted by mattdds on September 28, 2003, at 14:44:27
Hi Mat,
Sorry for this late reply.
I left the debate to you guys..Lar's knowledge and debating in this is tops.
Thanks for the links and interesting posts Lar.
Couple of comments if I may,> Huh? Though fluoridation is beneficial to the dental health of people of all ages, children are the main target.
One of my main concerns is that it is not only the teeth that are affected by the fluoride...the whole body is as well. Other bones in the skeleton would surely also be affected.
This is not even considering the autoimmunity, thyroid and other problems...I'm sure many would be covered in the links Lar provided.From one of the links Lar posted,
My kids under the age of 5 all tested high in lead too.(blood and hair analysis)...although not at the levels that workers in the lead smelting industry get.I could never work out why. I thought it might have been crossing the road with the exhaust fumes out of cars in the local shopping centre and wrote to the council with suggestions ....many years later got a couple of raised crossings built, with areas that cars couldn't park to make safer crossing areas.
Now I'm wondering if it was the fluoride after all, sigh.>Children of the age when systemic fluoride is most useful are not capable of making those decisions for themselves. And, as adults, when we have strong evidence that we can intervene preventatively, it becomes an issue of neglect if we do not.
>
> I really am not even convinced of the thyroid toxicity, especially at or around 1 ppm.Mat, being probably a member of the thyroid community, I am..but can offer no "proof" only anecdotal. I definitely feel better in non fluoridated water areas. I'm the first to admit this could be psychological though.
I also tend to drink more water than average, and this is a concern as the fluoride level is probably not calculated for the amount of water I drink.
I "think" people who consume a lot of meat tend to drink more water than higher carb/low meat dieters. Could be this, but I've always been thirsty.
I'll have a go at the questions if I may.
Please answer these questions. In your opinion.1. When a patient has a cavity, what dental restorative material (or treatment) do you deem safe (or least harmful in terms of overall health - including dental health).
Small fillings I think it doesn't matter too much, so I've compromised on Z100.(no fluoride taste).
Larger fillings I've previously answered in part on http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/262037.html
I think cerec is a good idea, although the machine/computer software setup costs about $15,000AUD..presumably about US$10,000. The porcelain is not too wearing against other teeth as it is not coated (from what I've heard). My son had one of these done above his root canal.
Basically I agree with you that most composites just contain other toxins like phenols, formaldehydes, fluorides etc
Here's a thread on another forum from when I was looking into this(click on advanced view at bottom RHS page to view up to 20 messages at once)
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=33074.17Personally what I really HATE are the glass ionomers.
I had a filling upper left no 6 tooth that was all Fuji1X. I was the pits...It tastes really dreadful ..almost burning..intense taste intensity...fluoride releasing is bad..and if you use fluoride toothpaste is tastes much worse.
I ended up getting that tooth pulled out, as it kept hurting as was eventually eaten away from the inside. This was probably not the fault of the fuji1X but it didn't help.
http://www.biodent.com.au/gicbiocomp.htmlI'm not wrapped in Tetric Ceran either..it leaks out fluoride and I can taste it. Strangely that tooth also still huts, but again I don't think I can blame the filling.
I did have a naturopath atached to one dentist I visited do a http://www.holistic.co.nz/art4.html electroacupuncture by Vol...but I really think this stuff is iffy. Any opinions anyone?
2. Should we remove all fluoride from the water? Or just stop supplementing it.Just stop adding it to the water mainly.
Where possible in any areas of the world with unusually high fluoride rates in the water, some attempt should be made to source water from elsewhere. In some poorer areas of the world like India (if it does occur there or in similar places) this may not be possible.3. What is your take on pit and fissure sealants?
Undecided I guess. My daughter has had a lot of these..needed to be reapplied often too
The school dental clinic has a policy of only seeing kids every two years..they saw her every 3 months and usually ended up reapply some of these each time, as they kept lifting. This was due to very soft spongy insides of back teeth I think.
Note after the first application of fissure sealants her immune system broke down and she ended up with psoriasis. Probably a coincidence....
Oldest son had one fissure sealant done..I'm not sure what happened but he ended up having to get a root canal done about 7 years later as I think probably the whole just kept growing underneath.
4. What about topical fluoride? Is this reasonable, in your opinion?
On occasion where a definite need is shown. One might be where orthodontic brackets? are to be fitted or where it may help in enamel recovery. Definitely not in children under 10 years old...or on baby teeth.5. What about endodontic (root canal) therapy and gutta percha? (I notice that anti-amalgam and fluoride types also tend to be anti-gutta percha).
I suggest calcium hydroxide? If that can be used?Yep, I'm anti-amalgam AND anti gutta-percha.
http://www.brooks.af.mil/dis/DIS62/sec8.htmDIRECT PULP CAPPING WITH A BONDING AGENT: GOOD OR BAD IDEA?
Response of human pulps capped with a self-etching adhesive system. de Souza Costa CA, Lopes do Nascimento AB, Teixeira HM, Fontana UF. Dent Mater 2001;17:230-240
Direct pulp capping has been a procedure employed for many years in dentistry. Typically, calcium hydroxide has been the material of choice for this procedure because studies have shown that pulpal health and dentin bridge formation result when it is used. Despite this positive clinical track record, some clinicians have begun using resin materials to cap the exposed pulp following total acid etching. Several animal studies have shown encouraging results. This study evaluated human pulpal responses following direct pulp capping with a self-etching bonding agent and compared it to that observed following the use of calcium hydroxide. Thirty-three sound human premolars had their pulp tissues mechanically exposed. Pulps were capped with Clearfil Liner Bond 2 (Kuraray) or calcium hydroxide (Pathfinder Associates), and the cavities were filled with Z100 resin composite (3M). After 5, 30, and 120-300 days, the teeth were extracted and processed for microscopic examination. Results indicated that over the short-term, Clearfil Liner Bond 2 elicited a mild-to-moderate inflammatory pulpal response. Over time, a chronic inflammatory condition developed which inhibited pulpal repair and subsequent dentin bridge formation. On the other hand, the calcium hydroxide-capped teeth showed an initial organization of pulpal cells under a layer of coagulation necrosis. Over time, pulpal repair was observed with complete dentin bridge formation. The authors concluded that calcium hydroxide remains the material of choice for direct pulp capping.I think this is good idea too.
My son had a root canal done with this (I think)..I really have no knowledge of this at all. It is only what he told me, and it works fine.
http://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2002SanDiego/techprogram/abstract_10071.htmhttp://www.biodent.com.au/formaldehydestudy1.html
I am also chemically sensitive to formaldehyde..on tests years ago by a chemical allergy specialist.I'm not really "up" with this, so I hope my answers are OK
Jan
poster:tealady
thread:272683
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031023/msgs/272683.html