Posted by Dr. Bob on October 6, 2003, at 15:06:51
In reply to Where to buy fish oil? « katia, posted by Dr. Bob on October 3, 2003, at 18:10:12
Re: Where to buy fish oil? » katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 3, 2003, at 18:15:50
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030928/msgs/265125.html
Hi Katia,
Actually, the site is iherb. Is that what you meant? There are so many sites selling supplements that there's probably an eherb. 9-12G is not too much, believe it or not. A study done by Andrew Stoll, MD found that bipolars and depressives were helped somewhat at around 3G but there was a real difference at 9-12G. As far as the mercury, getting a distilled pharmaceutical grade brand removes the contaminants and mercury from it. The one I've been taking is from Dr. Barry Sears, The Zone guy. It's very pure, but costs almost $70 for a month's supply so I was looking for a cheaper brand. The Carlson brand has gotten good reviews but is new so it remains to be seen. Dr. Stoll's brand is OmegaBrite which is pharmaceutical grade and has a different ratio of EPA to DHA which he claims is the correct ratio for bipolars. I've never used it, mainly because I think he only has capsules and I hate to swallow that many.That's great that you went to a good psychic. I've gone to many and some were incredibly bad and a few were really amazing. It's so helpful how a really good one can tune in and see a much larger picture sometimes spanning many planes of existence. I know that if I can only see that what's going on for me is part of a greater whole, I don't feel so despondent. I can go through anything as long as I have a sense of hope or meaning. It's when I go into despair and hopelessness that nothing seems worth it.
Yeah, me too on the skunkblood and swampwater. I feel too crappy the next day. Not only the pain of a hangover but the pain of beating myself up. Like you mentioned previously, being sober for a while really starts to open up the gates to that gentle clear light that feels so much better. After all, that's why we do this sh*t, isn't it? To feel that bliss? Oh yeah, it's fun too and great for parties, and that's where it gets hard to say no - when everyone else is enjoying a fine wine or nice microbrew or a Cadillac Margarita and you're nursing your lemonade. Waaah! But that peace and health is what I really want. Oh, I've heard that naltrexone helps to curb the cravings. It blocks the opiate receptors and is usually used for narcotic addiction, but turns out it helps for alcohol too.
What I've been doing lately is reading up on how nasty the effects of alcohol are on the bod and brain. Yikes! Why does it taste so good? Wish I'd never started. - Barbara
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Hypothyroidism and meds » BarbaraCat
Posted by katia on October 4, 2003, at 0:46:58
In reply to Re: Where to buy fish oil? » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on October 3, 2003, at 18:15:50
Hi Barb,
Well guess what the doctor said (the nutritionist). He's a dentist turned nutritionist.
My blood pressure was reeeeeallly low 71/55 or something like that. And it always is on the low side. Cold hands and feet and the electroacupressure machine indicated that I'm hypothyroid(ist?). anyway, I had my thyroid tested only a few months ago and it was normal. He said that those tests are not that accurate and recommended a test called Fama? Have you heard of it?
I also saw my pdoc today too. (whew!)I'm slowly coming off of the Depakote and upping the Lamictal. We'll probably introduce Li. if we need to. In a month, I'll be completely off of Dep. and at 25mg of Lam. And then we'll take it from there. If we do intro Li. I'd like to have the thyroid thing under some control.
There was a med that he recommended that is natural - I can't remember the name now. do you know it? How have you found out for sure that you are hypothyroid? What were your symptoms?I feel good about coming off of Dep. I'm so sluggish and get tired sooooo easily. I enjoyed the zippy feeling of the Lam. but only for a few days. Hopefully when I up the dose more i'll maintain that zip. This nutritionist also recommended something called Zen - a combo of GABA and L-Theanine for mood regulation. Have you tried either of these amino acids?
I appreciate his concern and advice, but I also feel that reaction in me rising - like "just because it's ""natural"" doesn't mean it'll work better and have less side effects. and SOMETIMESSSSSS "medicine" is necessary!!!! he started on this kick about lithium over any other mood stabilizer b/c it's "natural". But I basically told him with my voice teetering on tearful hysteria and as nicely as possible that recommending one mood stabilizer over another is not his territory. He backed off and agreed and acknowledged that there are many types of theories/philosophies and he was just stating his.
I'm feeling reactionary to people who boo-hoo meds and basically unacknowledge and unvalidate that bipolar and depression even exist = hence saying my suffering has not been real. (in my perception)I guess I'm just feeling pulled in different directions as EVERY BLOODY ONE claims to be an expert. And at the end of the day, I realize that most are all right and have their place. Why am I the way I am??? Bipolar = medication?
Imbalanced diet = proper diet? I've been caught in a 7 yr., 29 yr., 13yr. cycles (that just all ended this year!) of planets and so forth being completely in chaos and imbalanced and (summing it up - I've had a rough time baby) and now I'm nearing the end of an 84!yr old. cycle come the end of Dec. = I'm almost out of the woods and watch out baby for the woman i'll become. My moods will adjust accordingly (my astrological reading in a butchered nutshell from the elogence that she portrayed)....
anyway.....I needed to vent. I'm overloaded with healings. I need to now - digest, stop drinking, focus on my creativity, and walk in the magic of the woods. create my platform and foundation and then flyyyyyyy.
c'est moi.
ta ta -
Katia----
Re: Hypothyroidism and meds » katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 4, 2003, at 11:57:45
In reply to Hypothyroidism and meds » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on October 4, 2003, at 0:46:58
Hey Katia,
> My blood pressure was reeeeeallly low 71/55 or something like that. And it always is on the low side. Cold hands and feet and the electroacupressure machine indicated that I'm hypothyroid(ist?).
**Welcome to the club! Low thyroid explains alot. You feel like crap nomatter what you do. That's a pretty low blood pressure. Have you ever considered an adrenal stress test? Low bp is indicative of adrenal fatigue which is indicative of long term stress and a blow out of cortisol. That'll make you feel like crap also.
>I had my thyroid tested only a few months ago and it was normal. He said that those tests are not that accurate and recommended a test called Fama? Have you heard of it?
** Nope. I wonder what it is. Let me know if you find out more about it. I've heard about inaccurate tests for sure. I've heard that TSH tests can be inaccurate and the best way to tell is taking the basal body temp first thing in the mornng even before you get up to pee. You shake out a mercury thermometer the night before, preferably a mercury basal one (they're getting hard to find), and stick it under the armpit (why the armpit I haven't the foggiest) for 10 minutes. If it's under 97.4 you're most likely hypothyroid. Mine was 96.4 pretty consistently just a while ago. Of course, with lithium my TSH was going through the roof. I'm hoping with the natural thyroid med I'll start evening out. There's been some controversy lately about if supplemental T3 is really needed. An endo study said this. There was a big storm of backlash on the about.thyroid.com site (a goldmine in case you haven't visited it). I dunno. I feel better on T3/T4 but it can make me jittery if I take too much at one time, so I split the it.
> If we do intro Li. I'd like to have the thyroid thing under some control.
**You bet, but it may jump around anyway.
> There was a med that he recommended that is natural - I can't remember the name now. do you know it? How have you found out for sure that you are hypothyroid? What were your symptoms?
**There are SO many natural thyroid meds. I take one called Thyrox by Absolute Nutrition. It has an ayurvedic herb, actually a resin, called guggul resin that's had some good press lately on regulating metabolism. Maybe that's the herb he recommended? As far as thyroid, my TSH was high so it was a given, but TSH doesn't measure free T3 or T4 so it's unclear where I am with either. Also, my basal temp was vey low, so that was a double validation. But some docs just go by symptoms. The fact that you're so cold, tired and depressed is a big indication. But I'd wager your morning temp, and even throughout the day, is low. And hey, don't forget that your blood pressure is low too. All those symptoms were mine too, cold, tired, depressed, weight gain, low bp, plus a deep muscle pain - in fact, there's a theory that fibromyalgia is the body's inability to use thryoxine - the hypothalamus pituitary loop is broken and the hormonal signalling doesn't work right.
>
> I feel good about coming off of Dep. I'm so sluggish and get tired sooooo easily.**Could be thyroid.
>I enjoyed the zippy feeling of the Lam. but only for a few days. Hopefully when I up the dose more i'll maintain that zip.
**I wish. For me, the zip always lasts just the first few days and then evens out. But that's not really a bad thing. I'd rather feel calm and happy, although I'm going through a major fibro flare, hurting like all getout, so I'm not feeling too cheerful. However, and this is a biggie, I'm not going through the pit of despair like I used to when it got bad like this. So I know something is working.
>This nutritionist also recommended something called Zen - a combo of GABA and L-Theanine for mood regulation. Have you tried either of these amino acids?
**Yes! Zen is nice. It won't knock you off your feet, very subtle but it is cumulative. The only problem with these supplements is they get to be a big expense, I don't always remember to take them, and I HATE to swallow all those darn pills! I don't think handfulls of pills are good for ya, especially if the liver and digestion aren't in top shape.
**Another amino acid that helps me alot is L-Tyrosine. It's a precursor to thyroid hormone, as well as dopamine and norepinephrine. It definitely gives me a lift. I take 1G in the am, and it's best to take it with B6 with a little protein, and not at the same time as other aminos.
> I appreciate his concern and advice, but I also feel that reaction in me rising - like "just because it's "natural" doesn't mean it'll work better and have less side effects. and SOMETIMESSSSSS "medicine" is necessary!!!!
**Oh, I'm with you there! Some of these healers have never experienced the awfulness of what we go through. Maybe 'natural' is fine for mild cases that just need a little extra kick, or more sleep or whatever, but I know I need heavy artillery. I also need nutritional support and doing healthy things or I'll get worse, but those things are NOT enough.
**Something real interesting has happened that convinces me that the neurochemicals are involved in mood disorders. My husband's Mom has had mild alzheimers for about 2 years. It's been slowed down by Aracept but lately she's started having deep depressions. This is someone who has maintained a bright sunny cheerfulness ever since I've known her, can always look on the bright side no matter what's going on. She's the most positive person I've ever known. She has sorrows and pains just like everyone but has had the ability to find the lemonade in life's lemons. And now, with this disease she's losing that ability and starting to show those symptoms we all know so well. I can sure recognize it and this can happen with alzheimers, but no one else, including my father-in-law, is willing to admit the depression. It's really sad and I hope she can get some meds to help her. It's shown me that brain dysfunction is a real thing in causing mood disorders.
>He started on this kick about lithium over any other mood stabilizer b/c it's "natural".
**Yeah, and it can kill you just like 'natural' arsenic. But I wonder the same thing, if it might be more bioavailable cause the body can recognize it as one of it's own.
> I'm feeling reactionary to people who boo-hoo meds and basically unacknowledge and unvalidate that bipolar and depression even exist = hence saying my suffering has not been real. (in my perception)
**They just don't know. Nobody can imagine that level of suffering unless they've been there. Plus, I guess they want to help and fix it for you according to their beliefs. I've been to so many shamans, healers - I even was the 'demonstration model' for a very famous Phillipine psychic healer. I always have such high hopes, like I'm 'cured', but I guess there's no cosmic car wash. I've spent so much money and always hit the skids again anyway. That's not to say that I didn't learn some great insights, but wisdom doesn't help when you don't have access to it because the brain isn't making the necessary connections. I guess we just have to hang on tight and wait 'til these bad times are over and take our meds and keep the faith, baby. Oh, and journal. It's amazing the insights I've had from reading my journals. No matter how bad I feel or how much I don't wanna, writing in my journal helps calm me down.
>
>Why am I the way I am??? Bipolar = medication?**Maybe cause you're a sensitive and we live in a crazy unbalanced world. Anyone who isn't confused and distressed is either a saint or isn't paying attention. In some ways it's the best of the breakdowns you could get. Who wants cancer? Heart problems? Diabetes I? At least with the proper meds we can laugh and sing and dance, but others with big problems can't even take a walk. Oh, listen to me, Miss Pollyanna. I rail against it too. But y'know, this kind of stuff makes a person so much more interesting.
> Imbalanced diet = proper diet?
Probably contributes to it. I personally can't even think about good diet when I'm in the pits. It won't prevent it or get me out of it but hoo boy, if I just eat crap I feel even crappier.>I've been caught in a 7 yr., 29 yr., 13yr. cycles
**Are you going through your Saturn return? I got mine at 31 instead of late 20's. Hah! I don't think I ever fully recovered from it.
>I need to now - digest, stop drinking, focus on my creativity, and walk in the magic of the woods. create my platform and foundation and then flyyyyyyy.
**Amen to that, sister. The drinking thing might make a biiiiiiig difference for both of us. Let's hold cyber hands through it, huh?
> c'est moi.
**moi aussi. Au revoir. BCat
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cyper hand holding :-) » BarbaraCat
Posted by katia on October 4, 2003, at 15:56:26
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism and meds » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on October 4, 2003, at 11:57:45
My precious Barbara! i love hearing from you as soooo many people on this board do too! So some responses to your responses:
**Welcome to the club! Low thyroid explains alot. You feel like crap nomatter what you do. That's a pretty low blood pressure. Have you ever considered an adrenal stress test? Low bp is indicative of adrenal fatigue which is indicative of long term stress and a blow out of cortisol. That'll make you feel like crap also.
> This nutritionist doc (ndoc) said that it's glandular. And he's betting it's the thyroid. I could try the thermometer test and see what happens there. That's probably the cheapest way to start.
>> Long term stress sounds about right. I feel like that's all I've ever known. And the psychic reaffirmed that by describing all those (stress inducing) cycles I've been in that have ALL ended this year including one big one this December. She totally supported me on the medication and said by December I'll have it right. She said that I'll have to tweak it here and there after that along the way, but nothing like what I've gone thru'.
**There are SO many natural thyroid meds. I take one called Thyrox by Absolute Nutrition. It has an ayurvedic herb, actually a resin, called guggul resin that's had some good press lately on regulating metabolism. Maybe that's the herb he recommended?
> > The funny thing about this natural alternative is the ndoc recommended it and then I went to the pdoc and told him that the ndoc said that I was probably hypothyroid. I said to my pdoc that the ndoc recommended a natural med but I forgot the name and my pdoc named it right away. i still have forgotten it. Something to do with shiny surfaces/emerald green comes to mind.????? Oh, and i don't think it's an herb.
**I wish. For me, the zip always lasts just the first few days and then evens out.
>>> Whaaaaaaaaa. :-( I want zippp!!!
I'd rather feel calm and happy, although I'm going through a major fibro flare, hurting like all getout, so I'm not feeling too cheerful. However, and this is a biggie, I'm not going through the pit of despair like I used to when it got bad like this. So I know something is working.
>> Good to hear something is working in the midst of your pain. Sorry to hear about that.
**Another amino acid that helps me alot is L-Tyrosine. It's a precursor to thyroid hormone, as well as dopamine and norepinephrine. It definitely gives me a lift. I take 1G in the am, and it's best to take it with B6 with a little protein, and not at the same time as other aminos.
I actually have some here. whenever i mention these things to my pdoc, he just says "let me know how it goes.....". As though it's my decision and he has no say whatsoever. it's kind of frustrating. I don't think he works in the realm of anything but meds and just doesn't tread in unfamiliar territory maybe?
**Oh, I'm with you there! Some of these healers have never experienced the awfulness of what we go through. Maybe 'natural' is fine for mild cases that just need a little extra kick, or more sleep or whatever, but I know I need heavy artillery. I also need nutritional support and doing healthy things or I'll get worse, but those things are NOT enough.
Ditto. That's WHY I'm going to a nutritionist and all these other healers along the way.
**Something real interesting has happened that convinces me that the neurochemicals are involved in mood disorders. My husband's Mom has had mild alzheimers for about 2 years. It's been slowed down by Aracept but lately she's started having deep depressions. This is someone who has maintained a bright sunny cheerfulness ever since I've known her, can always look on the bright side no matter what's going on. She's the most positive person I've ever known. She has sorrows and pains just like everyone but has had the ability to find the lemonade in life's lemons. And now, with this disease she's losing that ability and starting to show those symptoms we all know so well. I can sure recognize it and this can happen with alzheimers, but no one else, including my father-in-law, is willing to admit the depression. It's really sad and I hope she can get some meds to help her. It's shown me that brain dysfunction is a real thing in causing mood disorders.
> Yes, it's incredible the amount of family denial that exists with mental/mood disorders. I see it in my family and no one talks. That's one of the reasons I suffered so long untreated. It's also amazing how this beast can affect anyone, even the ones that previously could spot the lemonade in the lemons. I had a life coach for a bit, and she agreed that people don't have a clue unless they experience it for themselves. She had gone thru' menopause and had experienced this sort of thing for the first time in her life and understands more about it and will never judge anyone taking meds or doing whatever they have to do to get thru' it.**They just don't know. Nobody can imagine that level of suffering unless they've been there. Plus, I guess they want to help and fix it for you according to their beliefs. I've been to so many shamans, healers - I even was the 'demonstration model' for a very famous Phillipine psychic healer. I always have such high hopes, like I'm 'cured', but I guess there's no cosmic car wash. I've spent so much money and always hit the skids again anyway. That's not to say that I didn't learn some great insights, but wisdom doesn't help when you don't have access to it because the brain isn't making the necessary connections. I guess we just have to hang on tight and wait 'til these bad times are over and take our meds and keep the faith, baby. Oh, and journal. It's amazing the insights I've had from reading my journals. No matter how bad I feel or how much I don't wanna, writing in my journal helps calm me down.
>>I agree there. One brave part of me is grateful to have gone so many years untreated and undiagnosed because it forced me to seek out all these other healing modalities (which didn't work, but gave me some wisdom and insights and courage/spiritual foundation) that all can be used to help me now. A synergistic affect.
Writing for me too, is a saviour. as in all you said above.
And and as for the brain functioning and the wisdom being there - just need access to it...
yesterday we did that electroacupressure organ analysis on my organs (btw my digestion has improved), he got to my brain and it skyrocketed - went really high and just got higher (indicating very good functioning of the brain). I lauged and said "yes, if only I had access to it".**Maybe cause you're a sensitive and we live in a crazy unbalanced world. Anyone who isn't confused and distressed is either a saint or isn't paying attention. In some ways it's the best of the breakdowns you could get. Who wants cancer? Heart problems? Diabetes I? At least with the proper meds we can laugh and sing and dance, but others with big problems can't even take a walk. Oh, listen to me, Miss Pollyanna. I rail against it too. But y'know, this kind of stuff makes a person so much more interesting.
>Have you read "The Highly Sensitive Person". I totally agree that being sensitive is part of this - part of me.
> yes yes yes. I agree with you. I know that sometimes we feel that our suffering is the greatest and no one else's can come close, but it ain't so. But by saying that it isn't so doesn't invalidate my experience it just opens it up. I'm not the only one. I see people in such worse off situations than me. Perspective is good, but it shouldn't be used to feel guilty about feeling badly when it appears on the surface that our lives are great. yes, we're on the same page on that one Barb.
> >I've been caught in a 7 yr., 29 yr., 13yr. cycles
>
> **Are you going through your Saturn return? I got mine at 31 instead of late 20's. Hah! I don't think I ever fully recovered from it.NO. She said I got out of that one (probably the seven year cycle). She was talking about these unbalanced chaotic cycles I've been caught in. The first thing she said was "well it looks like you've had quite a tough time since....well you're whole life!" She said I'm not quite out of the woods, but will be soon. And things will start happening fast. and what I need to do now is create a steady foundation (no drinking and create a disciplined time for creativity - a container).
> **Amen to that, sister. The drinking thing might make a biiiiiiig difference for both of us. Let's hold cyber hands through it, huh?
I asked my pdoc to please put me on Antabuse. He said he couldn't until I got off of Depakote. So I'll give no drinking a go for one month and then go on Antabuse thur' the holidays. I just need a leg up.
I'm here holding your hand.
hugs,
Katia
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:265317
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/266018.html