Posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2010, at 10:49:41
In reply to Follow-up to previous post, posted by chujoe on July 27, 2010, at 8:03:29
> How many posters have stated (to you) that they feel guilted or shamed when you ask them into helping someone? "You may have the power" .......Lots of people come here because they either don't have power or they believe that they dont have it. . I know that I've had an uncomfortable feeling in the pit of my stomach every time I read that.
I know some people feel powerless. Here, anyway, they may have more power than they realize. Regarding guilt and shame, violette posted an interesting link earlier:
> > Replace shame with mature guilt. Guilt has often received bad press, and well it should--if, and only if, you are talking about neurotic guilt--guilt that self-flagellates and changes nothing. If you are talking about mature guilt, then guilt is one of the great inventions of nature. For mature guilt lets you know what is unacceptable, and offers you opportunity to do something about it. Shame, on the other hand comes to you as a feeling so deep and so incapable of your getting a grasp on it that it seems there is nothing you can do. To illustrate: John feels shame that he is not the sort of person who can ever excel at his work. Whatever happens, a demotion, a "blowing-out" by his boss, he senses that this is because he is "basically inadequate," so he hangs his head and lowers his eyes and dampens his energy. Finding the "smarts" and the courage to re-evaluate himself as "guilty" of inertia and poor training, he begins to create and achieve goals that are possible for him. So if he sets certain standards, and then if he doesn't achieve them, he can rightly feel guilty that he is failing and can increase his efforts to succeed, or redefine his goals. He has moved into consciousness that his worth can be defined by realistic possibilities, not by the un-focused and "hidden" demands of shame-making expectations.
>
> > http://www.psychsight.com/ar-shame.htmlhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/951917.html
> > > > Instead of being negative about ideas you want to criticize, just be positive about alternative ideas you support.
> > >
> > > The discussion is about torture.
> > >
> > > Can you show us what you would say?
> >
> > One possibility might be:
> >
> > > > I believe people are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. I believe they should at all times be humanely treated and protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity. I believe women should be especially protected against any attack on their honour, in particular against rape, enforced prostitution, or any form of indecent assault. I believe all people should be treated with the same consideration, without any adverse distinction based, in particular, on race, religion or political opinion.
>
> I am only interested in a statement about torture. . Just a statement about "torture" as in what we've learned about our government in the last few years.
>
> fayeroeI'm more interested in positive statements about what I support than in negative statements about what I don't. At the same time, if someone had a desire to be negative, I wouldn't consider it uncivil for them to post:
> > I oppose torture by our government.
--
> > You wouldn't consider "I don't give a crap what you think" a screw-you statement?
>
> I suppose it comes close, but it also tells the truth, which is that Link, as he put it later, was not looking for suggestions.I wish he'd simply chosen the language he used later to begin with. :-)
> Notice, to, how the other discussants just rolled with Link's statement and kept advancing the discussion. Context is important -- if someone makes an unhelpful remark but the other people in the discussion continue the thread w/o taking the bait, I would think it best to just let it be.
I agree, but a little bait can lead to more bait, and an ounce of prevention can be worth a pound of cure.
> Link did not write, "I don't give a crap what you think." He wrote, "I don't give a crap what people on this board think." There is a pretty difference between those two statement, I think.
>
> chujoeI agree, it could be considered a screw-all-of-you statement and not just a screw-you statement.
Bob
a brilliant and reticent Web mastermind -- The New York Times
backpedals well -- PartlyCloudy
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:951844
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/956107.html