Posted by ed nieg on January 27, 2019, at 2:50:30
In reply to Re: Antipsychotic-Induced Anhedonia: Rare? » ed nieg, posted by bleauberry on January 26, 2019, at 11:06:19
> This is a debatable topic and not settled science. Actually, most of the medical community doesn't even recognize the kind of drug-induced emotional numbness you spoke of. They chalk it up to the spectrum of depressive symptoms.
>
> I happen to believe that most of the time, the drug-induced anhedonia is either partially permanent or totally permanent, that the patient never returns to their former state.
>
> From many years of experimentation and study, I have discovered only 3 drugs in the entire world that can make that anhedonia go away, and return you to your former self with interest in hobbies, activities, social, etc.
>
> Ritalin, Adderall, or Modafinil. In my opinion Ritalin is the most effective with the least side effects. Adderall is second. Modafinil is not as reliable but sometimes works magic when nothing else does.
>
> I was on Prozac+Zyprexa for years - but I took them separately, not in the same pill. I had started prozac first and added zyprexa a few months later. Prozac created the anhedonia, though it was noticeably less than the anhedonia of others I had been on, such as Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa, Lexapro. Those were really bad for anhedonia. When I added Zyprexa it actually improved anhedonia a little bit, but not enough. Even though my depression was well under control, you just can't function right in life when your emotions are so numb.
>
> The anhedonia itself - drug induced or not - is as crippling, if not more so, than major depression itself. It certainly is not as painful as depression. But in terms of crippling your life it is. Either depression by itself, or anhedonia by itself, will seriously disable your abilities to engage in life.
>
> I then ordered an overseas med called Adrafinil, which is the parent drug of Modafinil. The first day I took it I was cured. That faded. Over the next month it slowly kicked in and a lot of the anhedonia was taken care of, but never all of it.
>
> It wasn't until years later when I was on Ritalin that I realized the stimulants really should be first-line meds in psychiatry for depression, anhedonia, focus, energy, and in many cases greatly improved sleep and improved anxiety, despite being stimulant - there are scientific explanations why that happens. They should not be second or third tier choices, in my opinion. In my opinion the fastest way to lift a major depression patient out of the dungeon is with a stimulant, and there are clinical studies confirming that.
>
> So anyway, yeah, I think the anhedonia is permanent, at least to some degree, maybe totally, and that in my experience the only meds or herbs that can overcome that and return you to your former self are the prescription stimulants. I have taken maybe over a hundred herbs and supplements, I take 30 as routine, and have studied hundreds of hours - in all of that I have never encountered a supplement that can do what the stimulants do, never encountered an herb that can erase anhedonia.
>
> Your question was if it is rare? I say no, it is very common, almost universal. But that's just what I have seen.
>
> > I'll try to make this relatively succinct since I could go on and on about this: five years ago I started a combination of Prozac/Zyprexa known by the trade name Symbyax for stubbornly resistant OCD symptoms that weren't responsive to regular treatment. I noticed emotional numbness and anhedonia almost immediately after starting the Symbyax; however, the benefit on my OCD symptoms was so great and the feeling when I tried to taper off was so torturous I ended up on the med combo for 6 months. I expected to feel like my regular self again after stopping, alas, my ability to feel pleasure was noticeably absent. Five years later I still suffer from anhedonia constantly that really makes life quite pointless.
> >
> > I am not trying to contend that psychiatric drugs can result in lasting mental/emotional ramifications: I know this for a fact. I am not trying to engage anyone in a spat over the ethics of psychiatric treatment, I simply would like to know how many of you have suffered similar unintended consequences of these medications and experienced any success treating these residual effects with further medication. I have ran the gamut of wellbutrin/more ssris/TCAs/MAOIs... I eventually turned to psilocybin, which I seemed to verge on a breakthrough with but no dice. I've almost completed a series of ECT treatments with no help. I'm 25 and feel like my life is over: is there anything I'm missing? Thanks.I appreciate your response. Dopaminergic medications do seem like "Occam's Razor" sort of: the most obvious choice to treat this condition. I experienced dramatic success with Modafinil at times but like you said the effect tended to be inconsistent: it work well the first day and the effect would be weak the next. I could never get a hold of medications like Ritalin or Adderall, doctors were always reticent to prescribe those. One medication you didn't mention trying is Pramipexole, which is in line with the methodology of jacking up dopamine you seem to be a fan of. I haven't tried it yet because it seems to work selectively for older people from what I've seen, so if you're older you might want to try that out!
poster:ed nieg
thread:1102982
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20181024/msgs/1102999.html