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Re: Which Antidepressant LEAST likely to cause anxiety Mtom

Posted by bleauberry on May 4, 2018, at 8:25:17

In reply to Re: Which Antidepressant LEAST likely to cause anxiety, posted by Mtom on May 3, 2018, at 11:33:34

Wow that's a great post, Mtom. If I could I would like to add some comments to what you said...

> Thank you bleauberry. I will add some more detail for you as you seem knowledgeable (are you a medical professional?).

No I am not a professional. I am a nobody. Just one of millions with the same story. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, I have become an expert on some topics, more so than the folks who are supposed to be the experts. Not my choice. Do or die. Survival of the fittest. I was a straight A honor student in high school and University so I think that gave me an extra edge to be able to research and critical think through mysteries.

> I have Lupus.

Both of my lyme doctors said that Lupus can be misdiagnosed Lyme. They did not offer any percentages or data on that. But they have seen cases of Lupus respond well to Lyme treatment. Same thing for Fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety, multiple sclerosis, schizophrenia - a lot of these diagnosis are actually lyme, according to the doctors who fixed me up.

>My depression first cropped up very suddenly just before I was diagnosed, that is I wasn't depressed because of the diagnosis, the depression was one of many symptoms that sent me to the Doctor to find out what was going on.

Yeah it is that 'sudden' thing that raises a yellow flag for me. I mean, sudden as in a couple weeks after a tick bite? That's immediately where my mind goes. :-)

> It is known Lupus can cause depression and may be related to the inflammation, as you describe. However my doctors believe my Lupus is relatively mild and were never convinced it was causing depression. My most recent Lupus tests came back good, much better than years ago, however my depression has worsened.

If your doctors are not LLMDs (Lyme Literate Medical Doctors) then you may not be getting the best treatment and it might make sense to get a 2nd opinion from one of them. And yes, depression is one of the primary symptoms with patients in all of those mystery disease I listed.

> There have been a number of intense situational stresses in recent years which may be a large contributing factor in this worsening.

Any kind of stress can throw the immune system and glandular function out of whack. When that happens, it's sort of like the pot on the stove boiling over at the same time the kitchen sink floods and the air conditioner catches fire. All at the same time.

> I hear you about Lyme disease. I live in Canada where it is not as prominent as in the U.S. although becoming more so (more ticks surviving and reproducing, climate change believed a factor). But unfortunately, although our Medical system is really quite good up here (despite reports otherwise), because Lyme Disease is a relatively new phenomenon here, our Doctors don't have the expertise that U.S. Doctors do. I know someone who is currently travelling to the U.S. for treatment.

Doctors in USA are generally ILLITERATE when it comes to mystery diseases including Lyme. There are a handful in each state who refer to themselves as LLMDs. They are on top of it. They are way too few. Unless a case of lyme is straight forward textbook, it isn't going to end well. Most of them are not straight forward textbook. We don't often get the rash, or the positive i.d. on a lab test, and often never even aware of the tick bite. It's a clinical diagnosis based on expertise and experience. There are seminars that teach doctors how to be experts. Most doctors do not do those seminars. I don't know why. Makes no sense. I think they get comfy and cushy in their jobs and just don't want to raise the bar any more. Dunno.

> I've tried supplements including 5HTP (gave me the same anxiety as AD's, just took longer), I take Omega-3's, Turmeric, Vitamins. I tried high dose B-Vitamins on advice of 2 Naturopaths but they also seemed to increase my anxiety over time (I've read they are precursors to some neurotransmitters).

Your sensitivities to serotonin and B vitamins is a dead giveaway for Lyme, if you ask me. I mean, I look at that and it is clear as day. Sensitivities like that are HALLMARK in Lyme disease. I was so sensitive when I first started treatment that I could barely handle Vitamin C! The B vitamins gave me massive anxiety. Anything that calmed anxiety gave me deep depression. Everything made me worse! It took months of titrating slowly in tiny steps to be able to take substances. The only thing that really made a big diff were the anti-inflammatory herbs used in Lyme disease, and the antibiotics. My sensitivities today are mostly gone. I am allergic to eggs and gluten, which are also common offenders in lyme.

> A note about my Zoloft reaction. I had been taking St. John's Wort for several months before trying the Zoloft. SJW was doing nothing. I told my Doctor at the time I was taking SJW, she didn't know what it was (this was a lot of years ago) and blew it off, so I took my first Zoloft the same day I had also taken SJW. May partially account for my reaction, except for the fact that Trazodone & 5HTP also caused intense anxiety/agitation.

Traz and 5HTP causing anxiety/agitation is certainly a yellow flag to me. I do not see that as just some paradoxical reaction where you just shrug your shoulders and say 'oh well'. No it's more than that. It means something. You know what I think it means.

> I've even considered ECT. I haven't been able to get a good opinion on its effectiveness, and there seems to be side effect risks. It's discouraging that you say it did not help you.

I did ECT. I had 12 bilateral sessions over one month. I FAILED! Actually, toward the end, after the final treatment, I did experience a very short window of relief. Psychobabble noticed it. There were officials here asking me for my story. They thought it was amazing that ECT had helped me. But it was just days later after that, I was back into deep depression again. It was very short lived. If you study ECT, you will find that when good results do happen, which isn't that often, they are usually short lived. ECT is best for folks who are seriously handicapped or crippled. It can mean the difference between living in an institution or living in a halfway house. But for you or me, there's not much there.

The total cost was $28,000. Insurance covered only a part of that. That was back before Obamacare when we had great insurance policies that cost little and offered a lot. Today's insurance would probably cover less. A lot has changed in that regard.

My theory is that the only reason ECT helped for a short time was that it was literally frying the lyme bacteria in my brain. After each session I got super deep depression. With the benefit of hindsight, I can now see that those were actually Herxheimer reactions. ECT was killing bugs. But of course, as soon as the shocks stopped, the bugs came roaring back. That is my hypothesis of what happened.

> I've been told by a couple of people who did not do well on Zoloft that Celexa worked well without side effects.....?

You might do better with low dose prozac (5mg-20mg) with low dose Zyprexa (2.5mg-5mg). That particular combination kept my head above water for several years before it pooped out. Even with my sensitivities I could handle those. I like prozac because you can dissolve it in juice or water and drink custom doses - for example I put 10mg in a glass and I would drink 1/10th of the glass to get a 1mg dose. Over several weeks I went from 1mg to 10mg gradually. The combo is really good and I have no idea why doctors don't employ it more often.

Because of its long halfway, which is about a week, titrating is easier than other meds because you can skip days and not suffer from it. For example I did 1mg one day, skipped a day, then maybe 2mg, skip a day or skip 2 days, and so on...

Zyprexa and Prozac have a special synergy that other sari/antipsychotic combos don't share. I think this is a wildly under-utilized tool.

I think where a lot of us go wrong, including myself, is that we get all hung up on the theory that psychiatric medications alone are the only way out of our dungeon. That is a myth. With my experience, I would say that psychiatric medications alone is what keeps us in the dungeon. We need more than that. Meds are good tools for short term management of symptoms and acute management. But for longterm chronic mystery situations, they are often unsatisfactory and problematic in gaining respectable results.

> Any other thoughts you (or others) have would be welcomed.

I would suggest getting online and trying to search around for an L.L.M.D. in you area. See one of them for a 2nd opinion. Many of them have long waiting lists for new patients - 3 to 9 month waits are not uncommon. So find one and schedule one ASAP so you can begin the wait. I honestly believe that for most of us psychiatric patients, our outcomes are better with an LLMD than with any other category of medical doctors.

If you have any difficulty locating an LLMD let me know and let me know what city/state you live in. I can probably help you find one if you run into troubles.

If you wanted to experiment with some herbal things that I have a lot of confidence in, then I would suggest these for starters:

1. Rhodiola rosea. It is a root with a lot of scientific study. It is used for endurance, energy, anxiety and depression. It is also one of several 'adaptogens', which helps the body to respond to stresses of all kinds. Rhodiola is maybe one of the best antidepressants I've ever experienced. It's not magic but it's really good and better than most psych meds in my opinion.

Rhodiola is talked about in most of the lyme books. It has a definite role in the mystery disease treatments.

It's only drawback is getting started on it. Many people experience over-stimulation. I did too. It can worsen anxiety, agitation, and insomnia in the first days or couple weeks. As the body adjusts to it, it morphs into amazing peace and contentment, with renewed engagement in life.

I still take it. My dose is 100mg. Most people take more than that. Lower doses are more stimulating. Higher doses are more calming. And there is a lot of adjustment potential in-between to get a custom effect. A family member takes 100mg 3 times a day. Common doses are in the 400mg range. Too much for me. It is a great herb for mystery diseases but it takes a little bit of management to get started on it. My first dose was just 1/4 of a capsule (25mg). And I slowly titrated up from there.

2. Berberine is an amazing substance that helps in so many ways. Somehow, someway, all of the things it does, it ends up helping mood, in terms of anxiety and depression. Many mechanisms. It's very wide spectrum - pro-immune system, anti-microbial pathogens, anti-inflammation, anti-diabetes, agonist and antagonist at many receptors throughout the body, and more. Berberine is found in several plants. My favorite product, and I take 2 caps 3 times a day, is called Phyto-Biotic made by Enzymatic Therapy. I order it online to my mailbox from iHerb but other places have it too. It has berberine from 3 different plant sources. This is the kind of supplement you can definitely tell when the bottle runs out! You feel it.




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