Posted by bleauberry on April 21, 2018, at 9:46:27
In reply to Re: HHV 6 Infection? Lyme infection? 9/10? Treatment?, posted by SLS on April 21, 2018, at 7:13:21
> Bleauberry - How many doctors are there who would opine otherwise? That's a hell of a ratio working against the numbers you tout. If I remember, I'll ask my doctor, who is currently on a tour speaking about Lyme disease in psychiatry, what he would estimate the numbers to be.
Roughly I would estimate "most". Whether that is 7 out of 10, 9 out of 10, whatever, I don't know. But most, for sure, no doubt.
To avoid pure speculation I can only answer what I know. That is, two separate doctors told me that in their offices they experience 9 out 10 new patients get better on antibiotics after having been failed by other doctors who treated with psychiatric drugs and pain killers. It was all quite profound to me, as well as to you, with the difference being that I actually experienced what they promised was coming. I actually got to test their wisdom, ask tough questions, challenge them, pick their brains....and it all turned out true.
We have a new LLMD in my state. She just left the hospital system to go into private practice. I saw her a few months ago just to establish a relationship in case I ever need her. Anyway, she told me an interesting story of another patient. The patient was going crazy with anxiety and depersonalization. The doc had a choice of Xanax, SSRI, referring the patient to a psychiatrist, or other. She chose other. She treated the patient for 3 months for Bartonella - a common co-inffection with symptoms consistent with what the patient was suffering - and the patient recovered totally. You and I both know that if that patient had gone to any other doctor, they would be on psych meds today and still complaining of not being restored to wellness.
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> > > Before I continue debating you on this, I am more interested in knowing what should be done with these 9 people. What is the FIRST thing to be done to get these people better? For the sake of conciseness, it might be easier to address the following two scenarios as examples.
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> > Do not get another psychiatric prescription until the above has been performed first.
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> Deflection.NOT a deflection. I said very clearly the FIRST thing to do, which is exactly what you asked, the first thing to do is get a second opinion. Not another prescription. Not a test. Not a specialist. Not another appointment with your doc. None of those. A second opinion. The caveat with that second opinion is that it is mandatory it must be performed by an LLMD, not an average family doctor, not an infectious disease specialist, not a psychiatrist, only an LLMD. THAT IS THE FIRST THING TO DO.
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> > > 1. Acute - early de novo infection:
> > >
> > > 2. Chronic - late stage infection:
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> > Huge diff between acute and chronic.
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> Yes. That's why I separated cases into two scenarios.
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> Let's see how to best ask my question again. Assume that Lyme Disease has been accurately diagnosed. To the best of your estimation, what is the first treatment (please be specific) to be introduced for each scenario? How do we get people well? If multiple treatments come to mind, just choose one to talk about. We can talk about the others at another time.How to start treatment after a diagnosis? Well,that is a very individual thing, varying wilding from patient to patient. Some patients come into the office super sensitive to many things - meds, foods, perfumes - like I was - key word 'was' - and these folks have to be started very cautiously. The over-riding governor in how aggressive or how conservative to treat a patient is how sick they are at the baseline, and how intense the anticipated Herxheimer reactions might be predicted to be. It is very possible to land a patient in the emergency room or even a coffin with overly aggressive treatment too early.
One patient may be able to go straight into 3 antibiotics on day 1. That is something that the doctor would have a feel for. Another patient may have to start with micro-doses of just one ABX. Like me, for example. I was so sick in the beginning, when I left psychobabble and went searching for true improvement, that I couldn't even handle the lowest dose 100mg of Doxycycline. My LLMD backed me off to 50mg and I was still Herxing to hard - made depression way worse. He backed me off to 25mg once every 3 days. I could barely handle that.
Fast forward about 6 months later after that and I was taking 400mg Doxy per day, all in one dose for a big spike, and 2 other antibiotics at full doses, and Herxing was still heavy but tolerable.
Another common thing at the beginning of treatment is to clean app the patient's diet and supplements. We want a good professional multi, maybe some anti-inflammatory anti-lyme herbs in the background, vitamin c, vitamin d, probably gluten free, organic and non-gmo as much as possible, do some food elimination experiments to identify any probs. These are common things that happen at the start of treatment.
Most docs start off with either Doxy or Azithromycin. My first LLMD favored Tetracycline. As different psychiatrists have their own styles and favorites, LLMDs are like that too.
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> > > I like the idea of using 3 antibiotics concurrently. I have heard this idea proposed before - sort of like a cocktail of drugs used to treat HIV / AIDS.
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> > In my case the reason is because Borellia can morph into 3 different forms when it is under threat.
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> That is very interesting. A bacterium can sense threat? Where can I learn more about this morphing thing?http://www.treatlyme.net/treat-lyme-book/lyme-disease-antibiotic-guide/
I just did a real quick internet search to find the above link. It touches on the morphing thing. There are many others.
There is a lot of information online at blogs. Try finding stuff to read by DR MARTY ROSS or DR BILL RAWLS and DR RICHARD HOROWITZ.
The bacterium we are talking about have been around for 1000s of years and they have 1000s of genes. They are smart. I cannot tell you how they operate. As far as I know, all living organisms have a fight-or-flight response of some kind. Even plants.
They talk too. They form biofilms - sort of like cocoons made of your own DNA - with entire colonies hiding safe inside where the immune system, blood circulation and antibiotics cannot reach them. That is their defense tactic. If one bacterium is being attacked by an immune cell or one is being sickened by an antibiotic, the others are going to know about that. They talk. There is even anecdotal evidence that chemicals unique to berries serve to clutter up their communication channels. So I eat a lot of berries. :-)
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> > > Which 3 antibiotics are most often chosen?
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> > Doxy is common, as is Azithromycin. Tindamax. Ceftin. Flagyl. Rifampin. More. In my first remission a few years ago, I think I went through over a dozen different ABX over time and I don't remember all their names. Docs like to keep rotating them in and out for effectiveness and to avoid tolerance.
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> I understand what you mean. Would this be better characterized as treating mutations that have led to spirochete superbugs?The link above hints at the fact that there are constantly mutating new versions of the bacteria which makes testing almost impossible, and treatment needs skilled experience.
I automatically view the whole lyme thing as a superbug. It is tough. It is THE GREAT DECEIVER or THE GREAT IMITATOR. I am not aware of another bacteria which can impact the human body in such a devastating and yet stealth manner.
Ever heard of Plum Island? We don't know if this story is true or not but many say it is. It's off the coast of Connecticut. During WWII we hired some of Germany's best scientists to produce chemical warfare agents. They worked on Plum Island. Even today boats are not allowed near it. It is still a mystery. The scientists came up with some nasty germs but they had difficulty finding the right way to distribute the germs. They ended up favoring ticks - ticks could attack the army and basically render them useless without killing them.
In my own journey I often wonder if the germs we are dealing with originated in Plum Island decades ago? The first formal discovery and naming of Lyme disease happened on the mainland not far from that island.
There were rumors that the island is safe because there was no way the germs could get off of the island, no way for ticks to escape. But they didn't consider migrating birds. They didn't consider the herds of deer that swim out to the island and back.
Anyway, I think Lyme is a superbug. It makes a lot of people super sick with Fibromyalgia, Depression, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Anxiety, Schizophrenia, on and on. There are even stories of the lesions on the brains of MS patients disappearing after longterm antibiotic treatment. A high percentage of autopsied ALS brains show remnants of Borellia. Recent rumors are that Lyme may be implicated in both Dementia and ALS. We won't know in our lifetimes. But having been through the journey I have been through, it makes total sense to me. That's because these bacteria we are talking about drill holes into brain tissue and glands. The repercussions of doing that are endless.
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> > The primary factor is not which 3 (or even as much as 5), but rather, that all of them have different mechanisms so that they cover the entire spectrum of gram-negative, gram-positive, cell wall, cell wall deficient, and cystic.
> >
> > And then there are common co-infections such as Bartonella, Babesia and Mycoplasma. The ABX cocktails often cover these confections as a side benefit. Sometimes a more targeted approach is needed. In my case for example, and in most psychiatric patients in my opinion, we are dealing with Bartonella and cystic Borellia. imo. My treatment is wide spectrum with an extra focus on Bartonella and busting cysts and biofilms.
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> This was great presentation. Thank you for that. Busting cysts does not sound terribly appetizing.It makes for some seriously intense Herxheimer reactions - the worst depression I ever felt - and the exact same depression I was battling all those years - it was actually my first Herx that clearly showed me there is a direct link between infection and psychiatry.
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> > So that brings up a new extraordinary assertion - that LLMDs may be more skilled in treating psychiatric symptoms than specialist psychiatrist are. :-)
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> Clever...
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>
> - Scott
poster:bleauberry
thread:1097758
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20180331/msgs/1098284.html