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Re: Any hope with subutex? Beckett

Posted by sigismund on June 9, 2013, at 13:46:33

In reply to Any hope with subutex?, posted by Beckett on June 8, 2013, at 18:51:09

What's the neuropathy from?

I noticed one Chinese researcher said that noni was 75% as powerful as morphine, which I imagine is a completely meaningless statement, as well as wrong, but it does help a bit. With mice, anyway, when they do terrible experiments on them, as well as with me, for staying asleep without being too uncomfortable.

I have not taken bupe but, compared to methadone anyway, it has a reputation for being less depressing. For me opiates have always worked initially for depression by taking away the feeling of comfortlesness. But evidently not with you, or perhaps what you describe as depression is something different from that.

There is a big difference between giving up say oxycodone and morphine. One is difficult, the other too much for most of us. I imagine bupe would be more like oxy in difficulty. Whether you will find it so good/pleasant/antidepressive once the whole tolerance thing happens, I don't know. FWIW, if I had significant pain I would go for it, especially if the pain looked like it was here to stay.

R Alpha lipoic acid is interesting stuff. Disturbed my sleep of course. I should take it just to help my body get rid of the mercury. I am keen on curcumin, the BCM extract, and take 1,200mg/d for my numerous complaints. I hope it helps. It sounds so good. And can't be worse than pharmaceutical NSAIDS. When put onto the skin of my knee the skin peeled after 3 applications, and I guess something similar happens in your gut.

Below is from LEF.

Nutritional Options for Neuropathy

If the cause of neuropathy is known and treatable, then managing the underlying condition is the best option. In many neuropathies, however, no specific cause will ever be identified. In addition, many of the causes of neuropathies are themselves not readily treatable. A number of supplements have been shown to interfere with the underlying mechanisms of a variety of forms of neuropathy.

Acetyl-L-carnitine. Acetyl-L-carnitine is known to have neuroprotective properties. Two recent studies found that acetyl-L-carnitine can limit neuropathy associated with some chemotherapy drugs (Ghirardi 2005; Maestri 2005).

It has also been shown to limit neuropathy associated with diabetes. In two randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trials, acetyl-L-carnitine, in daily doses of 500 mg and 1000 mg, was shown to yield significant reductions in pain (Sima 2005).

In two related studies of diabetic nerve degeneration and neuropathy, acetyl-L-carnitine accelerated nerve regeneration after experimental injury. In the first study, diabetic animals treated with acetyl-L-carnitine maintained near normal nerve conduction velocity without any adverse effects to glucose, insulin, or free fatty acid levels, suggesting that acetyl-L-carnitine can hasten nerve regeneration in the context of diabetes (Soneru 1997). In another study, carnitine was shown to correct a number of nerve dysfunctions in animals with chemically induced diabetes (Nakamura 1998).

In a human trial, acetyl-L-carnitine appeared to help prevent or slow cardiac autonomic neuropathy in people with diabetes (Turpeinen 2000). In a large, multicenter human trial, L-carnitine improved nerve conduction velocity and reduced pain associated with diabetic neuropathy over a one-year period (De Grandis 2002).

Lipoic acid. As a powerful antioxidant, lipoic acid positively affects important aspects of diabetes, including prevention, blood sugar control, and the development of long-term complications such as disease of the heart, kidneys, and small blood vessels (Dincer 2002; Jacob 1995, 1999; Kawabata 1994; Melhem 2002; Nagamatsu 1995; Song 2005a; Suzuki 1992). It has also been shown to reduce pain associated with diabetic neuropathy (Halat 2003). Studies include:

Clinical trials of diabetics with symptoms caused by nerve damage affecting the heart showed significant improvement taking 800 mg oral alpha-lipoic acid daily without significant side effects (Ziegler 1997a,b).
In another study, 23 diabetic patients were treated with 600 mg alpha-lipoic acid, delivered intravenously daily for 10 days, followed by 600 mg oral alpha-lipoic acid for 60 days. At the end of the study, all participants showed significant improvements in cranial neuropathy, as well as improvements in both peripheral and autonomic neuropathy, which affects internal organs (Tankova 2005).
In another study, 26 patients with type 2 diabetes were given 600 mg alpha-lipoic acid daily for 3 months. At the end of the study, 20 patients experienced a significant regression of neuropathic symptoms, while 5 patients experienced a complete cessation of all symptoms. Alpha-lipoic acid was especially beneficial in women as well as thinner and younger patients (Negrisanu 1999).
N-acetylcysteine. N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is a powerful antioxidant and a precursor to glutathione, an intrinsic antioxidant. Animal studies have shown that NAC can inhibit diabetic neuropathy and protect against neuropathies caused by chemotherapy drugs (Love 1996; Park 2000).

Curcumin. Researchers are continuing to discover the benefits of curcumin, which is the yellow pigment that gives turmeric its distinctive golden hue. In a study of inherited peripheral neuropathies, curcumin was shown to relieve neuropathy by causing the release of disease-associated proteins that are produced by a mutated gene (Khajavi 2005). Curcumin has also shown promise in animal studies of diabetic neuropathy and as a neuroprotective agent in central nervous system diseases (Osawa 2005).




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