Posted by linkadge on May 29, 2008, at 8:15:52
In reply to Re: C*A*F*F*E*I*N*E..as an antidepressant?, posted by Molybdenum on May 28, 2008, at 22:26:21
>From the Wiki god: "An antidepressant is a >psychiatric medication or other substance...used >for alleviating depression or dysthymia... Most >antidepressants have a delayed onset of action >and are usually taken over the course of weeks, >months, or years. They are generally considered >distinct from stimulants, and drugs used for an >immediate euphoric effect only are not generally >considered antidepressants."
But I am arguing that the stimulant effect of caffiene is independant of longer term effects that coffee may have on affective disorders. For instance, if you reduce dark chocolate to caffine, then it shouldn't have the health benifits that it does. It should raise BP which it doesn't. Also, most stimulants are *not* neuroprotective, yet caffine shows some effect in this regard.
>I like the distinction between ADs & stims on >the grounds of the sustainability of the effect. >ADs typically work for years - some people never >get poop-out. The stims are all "instant effect" >machines in my experience. By design, they MUST >stop working after 12 hrs or so otherwise they >interfere with sleep.
Again, you don't really know how sustainable the effect of coffee is. It is true that the caffiene may wear off first, but that doesn't mean that coffee may not have a favorable impact on affective disorders long term.
>Modafinil helps my mood a little and I think >that feeling "a little brighter" every day on >account of this might be a helpful addition to >the traditional ADs in my "treatment spectrum". >But I'd still class it as a stim, not an AD in >itself, if for no other reason than to make >discussions on this forum clear.
But many people do use it as an antidepressant. I know people who have failed trials with SSRIs and SNRIs only to have a sustained AD effect from modafanil. Again, when you reduce depression to the biochemical disorder of your choice, then only certain drugs are antidepressants.
>Imagine the mess that would ensue if we used the >term AD to refer both groups. Get my point?
But again, I am separating the effect of caffinie from the effects of coffee. Its just like you cannot reduce cigarrettes to nicotine. Nicotine does not inhibit MAO, but we do know that other compounds in tobacco smoke do.
>There's enough points of distinction in the Wiki >definition to leave this aspect alone.
Yes and no. I know many people who use coffee daily for mood improvement. When my father attempts to quit coffee, he becomes very depressed (far beyond the time lag for complete caffinee withdral). No its not the kind of anxious/neurotic/insomniac depression, he just becomes much less motivated, he reads less, sleeps more, is less interested in favorite TV shows, works less around the house etc.
>So I agree with your points about caffeine >having a genuine "depression alleviating" >effect, but I think we should not call it an AD >as such. I say leave it as a "stimulant".
Some people would like to leave wellbutrin as a "stimulant". Some people crash from wellbutrin. That doesn't mean it doesn't provide an AD effect for many people.
Linkadge
poster:linkadge
thread:831456
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080528/msgs/831862.html