Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2007, at 20:11:06
In reply to Re: That Way Lies Madness » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 14:41:02
>Really? Depression and bipolar disorders and >schizophrenia all have a majority of age onset.
>In this respect they are very much like other >genetically-keyed biological developments. One >example, is adolescence and all the hormonal >changes attending that period. It is usually >between 10-14. In the case of schizophrenia, >around 18, in bipolar around 28, in depression, >can be any time, but usually earlier than the >above. Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, later in >life, usually above 50.But how does that show that these individuals are doomed to destruction should they choose other routes for healing?
>That's because we don't know everything yet. >Some illnesses are successfully treated because >they have found the right drug. That took years >of research.No it didn't. It took a few accidental discoveries.
>Taking nothing at all is worse than taking >something that has some effect, though not the >best effect.Not necessarily.
>These illnesses may be cyclical but they do not >terminate like the flu. They are brain diseases >which must be corrected, like meningitis, or >enchephalitis, for example.Thats simply not true. There has not yet been one idetified gene or biological abnormalty which yet predicts that an individual will, with 100% assurance, get a disease. There is a gene/environment interaction. For instance, did you know that turmeric almost abolshes the development of alzheimer's plaques in mice who are genetically engineered to develop such plaques? Turmeric is not a drug, but in such models it can clearly prevent the development of a genetic "likelyhood". Seeing as we don't know the exact etilogy of such mental illnesses, we cannot say that our medications infact do anything for the root cause, let alone say that an individual cannot recover without them.
>That's because the majority do not improve. Once >you have manic-depression, your brain has >changed neurologically. It doesn't go back to >its pre-sick stage through a miracle or on its >own.Says who? Even if this is true, lithium doesn't cure bipolar disorder either. There are a number of people who manage their bipolar disorder with things like taurine and omega-3. But I suppose these people are quacks, and they never really had bipolar. You know, agents like omega-3 and taurine are studied at Harvard, but I suppose the guys at Harvard are quacks too who apparently like wasting their time studying agents with zero potential to treat Bipolar just because they like randomly wasting their time.
>You may suffer something else which is >misdiagnosed, resulting from stress, and that >group will be used by the anti-psychiatry >brigade to prove their point. But that group is >small and an exception.
Again, since we have no idea what causes depression we have no idea how it is to be cured or how it will recover. The drug Tianeptine is a perfect example. It works exactly the opposite to how conventional antidepressants work (ie it enhances the reuptake of serotonin), yet it is a clinically effective antidepressant. Oftentimes more effective than SSRI's. So basically, the "low serotonin" theory is bunk. So again, we've shown ourselves that we still don't know how antidepressants work. Therefore we cannot really say that people's claims about their recovery is bunk either. Turmeric is more potent in the forced swim test than is fluoxetine. Its not antipsychiatry, its just looking at options which psychiatry chooses to ignore. Its just like SJW. If it were a drug, it could be approved based on the number of studies in which it has already been shown sucessfull. Psychiatry doesn't care about it though. Taking SJW is not antipsychiatry.
>Remitting, only when it is exogenously causes, >as in grief for example. If it is a brain >change, it's a crapshoot to wait and see if and >when there will be a self-healing process of the >brain.
Actually thats not true. It has been known for a long time, that even severe endogenious depression will usually get better on its own within about a year. And again, the word "endogenious" is really untestable seeing as there we have *zero* tests to identify endogenious depression.
>Dramatic -- you give credit to bean sprouts, but >not to a genetic predisposition to some of these >problems. Diet and exercise help, but blood >pressure and cholesterol are not mental >disorders, though they like everything else in >the body can effect the brain.Your argument is making no sence. Mental illness is a medical disorder like is high blood pressure. If one can positivly influence one by diet, then it stands to reason that one might be able to affect the other with dietary manipulation. The etiology of schizophrenia could be highly dependant on oxidative processes. There was a recent study which showed that a diet of omega-3 and antioxidants prevented progression of schizophrenia prodrome more effectivly than olanzapine in "at risk" teens.
>Well, go ahead and exercise. In mixed states and >mania, some patients exercised themselves to >death because they could not stop. That's called >psycho-motor agitation.
Did I recomend exercise for mania?? Obviously not.
>Your references may be good clinical articles, >and exercise is good for anyone, but years of >medical research have been devoted to treating >with medication. I would exercising as a cure is >not mainstream. But if it helps you, you are >lucky.
I don't understand the above paragraph. Exercise for depression is actually very mainstream.
Linkadge
poster:linkadge
thread:790781
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20071019/msgs/790954.html