Posted by Squiggles on June 5, 2007, at 9:42:23
In reply to And not all psychol. probs are under one's control, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 4, 2007, at 20:55:43
> I'd just like to thrown in a couple pennies to this discussion.
>
> By reframing depression (and other affective disorders) as psychological problems/struggles/imbalances whatever-- This does not imply that they are under one's control.
>
> Many psychological processes are NOT under one's conscious control. perception of sounds, vision, understanding speech, fluency of reading... etc.
>
> Furthermore, there is ample evidence that there are profound changes in brain morphology as a result of affective disorders. Things like smaller hippocampi in those with chronic anxiety disorders like PTSD, under and overactivity in the right and left prefrontal cortex for depression. Changes in the ratio of white matter to grey matter.
>
> The brain is a plastic organ. Once certain patterns of thought are practiced over and over again (like the pattern of thinking about one's worthlessness, or the pattern of not considering the beauty in ones immediate surroundings) the synapses and neurons supporting those thoughts and associations will become stronger.
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> The mechanisms by which the brain feels natural joy may atrophy or be short-circuited in depression.
>
> The good news is that life experiences have the potential to change the activity in one's brain, the way that our brain activates in response to stimuli, and the way that we process information.
>
> Such experiences may include therapy, or exercise, or meditation, or getting out of a bad relationship, or changing professions to something more satisfying.
>
> I don't think that CBT is right for everyone. I know that when I'm really depressed, the last thing I want or need is challenging homework that I dread and dread and dread.
>
> But the kind of therapy that I received when I was really depressed, (also in subsequent episodes) was supportive therapy that helped me realize that bad thoughts would not kill me. That no hope today doesn't necessarily mean that there will never be anything worth living for. What helped me in therapy was someone who listened and told me that I was only human for having feelings like this. Someone that I could talk about my daily stresses with and who wouldn't judge me harshly (as I do myself).
>
> So here's a little monist logic
>
> Therapy can help many people change the way they think about themselves
>
> Therapy can help many people find relief from their current sufferings
>
> Therapy can change the way we think and feel.
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> All behavior is a result of the functioning of the body (brain included).
>
> The human mind is a product of very complicated biology, 99% of which is still not understood.
>
> There are certain ways in which human minds work (psychology)
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> There are certain patterns in the brain (neurobiology) such as messenger systems, networks, metabolism, neurotransmitters, electical signals, different layers of tissue)
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> The mind (and it's disorders) cannot be reduced to only one element of neurobiology (i.e. neurotransmitters)
>
> Relatedly: Because therapy changes thinking (the mind) therapy *must* be affecting the biology of the system. Ideally, therapy can lead to lasting changes in the biology of the brain.
>
> fluctuations in the concentrations of neurotransmitters can also lead to changes in the brain, changes that can be measured in vitro, and for many people changes that can be measured in vivo.
>
> I think that's enough of a monologue. Sorry for getting so excited. neuroscience is so sexy. if only it didn't involve so many rats and cell preparations...
>
> -Ll----------------------------------
Actually, i agree with a lot of what you say.
But when the depression or psychosis is endogenous, even if only transient rather than genetic (as for example in soldiers returning from the atrocities of war), medication is mandatory. The therapy helps the person through, but alone will not reverse any biological changes in the brain-- whether they are from life tragedies or brain disease. And remember many brain diseases presenting with depression are not of the "neurological type". There are brain tumours, metabolic disorders, infections, hypoxic conditions, etc.So, i would say that the entire medical picture should be taken into consideration and kindness, and compassion are always necessary in suffering. Also, when all conditions in someone's life are going OK and all of a sudden she has a stroke and then depression, you can see that this is an example of a reactive brain state.
So, I agree with you, but I would not exclude drugs. Infact, drugs are helpful, no matter what the condition in comparison to therapy. A kind word, a sympathetic ear, an understanding of the situation, can all be provided by a good doctor. It does not require specialized therapy treatment.
Squiggles
poster:Squiggles
thread:761153
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070604/msgs/761322.html