Posted by munificentexegete on February 19, 2007, at 4:00:42
In reply to Re: Everything I believe may be wrong » munificentexegete, posted by Larry Hoover on February 18, 2007, at 9:48:11
>> Parkinson's disease is a Mental Illness, it has a pathophysiology being the decay of the dopaminergic system.
> Parkinson's Disease existed, both as a human experience and as a concept, long before we had any knowledge of the pathophysiology. Did it suddenly spring into existence when we discovered the decay in the subtantia negra?Of course not, however, and this is the crucial part, because it had a physical component to its definition, the “shaky palsy” as it was first coined, it was always going to be possible to at some point discover the pathophysiology behind the disease.
The definition of schizophrenia is such that its pathophysiology can never be identified. It is defined as a subjective not an objective concept on purpose. It is a fraud, a phoney, imaginary, delusional, unscientific, it is an insidious concept. It is a metaphoric term allowing anyone to be defined as seriously ill.
>> If we define schizophrenia as an overactivity in the dopaminergic system, then it too would be a Mental Illness. If we define bipolar as the overactivity followed by the under activity of the serotogenic system, then it too becomes a Mental Illness. However, without any pathophysiology schizophrenia and bipolar are meaningless, not mental illness at all, nothing more than metaphoric terms allowing doctors to define the well as diseased.
> I don't think a lay person needs to think "dopaminergic" to understand that a schizophrenic is having a different experience of the common reality than they themselves are having. Meanings of words have social components quite apart from their more technical definitions. It is true, most psychological diagnoses are behavioural. That does not invalidate the diagnoses themselves. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Schizophrenia is a useless subjective term, one can no more have schizophrenia than have squalemoertosaisa, its a scientific forgery nothing more.
>> Redefine them as illnesses by all means, but don't insult our intelligence and expect us to admire the counterfeit.
> I am indeed concerned about redefinition going on.
Lol, i am merely pointing out where science has given way to permanent subjectivity. Illness is a physical, medical concept, medicine is a science, medical diagnoses need to be supported by physical facts not subjective judgment. Otherwise doctors can go around willy nilly diagnosing everyone ill on a whim, and this is precisely the predicament we find ourselves in. It is not a very comforting thought.
> I am always struck by one key element in the diagnostic assessment of psychological illness, such as defined in the DSM. It is the presence of phrasing such as "causing marked impairment/distress"....
hmmm, psychological illness, sounds like witchcraft, where's the scientific evidence for that? I am not against psychological counselling for problems in living, but there is no proof that psychological problems are illnesses.
> I prefer to see the psych diagnoses as working hypotheses, rather than as constructs with perfect validation.
Lol, hypotheses, where did the science go? You know as well as I that they are designed to be permanent hypotheses and never fact. Shouldn't one have to discover a disease, rather than invent one that can never be discovered?
>As hypotheses, the existence of exceptions serves to suggest a boundary condition not yet understood very well.
Precisely. ; )
> I agree with you that we have only a weak and preliminary conceptualization of the relationship between brain tissue and biochemistry and the resultant cognition and behaviour. I also agree that it is unpleasant to be experimented on (a thesis that I infer from your arguments), yet that is all we have. It is all we have ever had.
I think we have an incredible understanding of how the brain works, the neurosciences are quite literally awe inspiring, just pick up any neurology or even psychiatric textbook to see the true depth of understanding we now have at our disposal. everything from blood tests to high resolution scans to genetic code analysis; medicine applied in a scientific manner is truly a blessing, extending and improving the quality of millions of lives.
Unfortunately I am sad to say that medicine has also constructed concepts like schizophrenia and bipolar. We could wait 10 million years or more, the pathophysiology of schizophrenia will never be elucidated. Those concepts have been specifically designed to enable a doctor to classify anyone as seriously ill and have them held and tortured against their will. They are not bona fide illnesses, they are complete forgeries and will remain so eternally regardless of the level of medical knowledge and expertise.
poster:munificentexegete
thread:732492
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070219/msgs/734072.html