Posted by yxibow on February 2, 2007, at 20:59:44
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze, posted by mindevolution on February 2, 2007, at 19:56:57
> be careful!
>
> akathisia is another word for torture. some people get stuck with it forever from ADs or APs, it can be so bad that people even commit homicides from the sensations.
>
> people with severe akathisia simply will do anything to escape the terrible tormenting sensations they experience. if there was one side effect that could be held responsible for inducing serious violence in the mentally ill, it would be akathisia.
>
> there is widespread denial of this fact by the psychiatric profession, and people who mention this viewpoint are usually discredited. however, the last 7 of 12 highschool homicide were by kids on ADs and APs.
>
> anyone who has ever had serious akathisia knows what I am saying is true. Some forensic psychiatrists that I speak with, agree in private, and express sadness at the number of murders and suicides that this side effect induces.
>
> Parnate does induce suicidal behaviour and akathisia:
> http://www.drugs.com/pro/parnate.html
>
> i would try another AD med as there is no cure for akathisia, and keep the doses low really low, rather than trying fixes like propananlol, clonidine, cogentin (is a harsh AC!) that usually contribute to a worsening of your long term position with only minor impacts on the akathisia.
>
> If you are off the akathisia inducing med, I have heard that 1 or 2 low doses (high doses can induce or make it worse) tablets of fluvoxamine can potentially reduce the symptoms of severe akathisia. due to the harsh side effect profile, and the number of systems affected by fluvoxamine, I wouldn't recommend it for more than the minimum amount required for relief.
>
> you won't see it recommended in the literature though as it is no longer a major brand. typically you will see reports of mirtazapine in low doses (7.5mg) used for the same purpose, but with mirtazapine there is the risk of agranulosytosis, but with only a couple of low doses, this may help too.
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> also I think you need a better pdoc, one who doesn't try and bandaid a potentially life threatening situation.
>
> meOh for cr*ps sake. I've had enough of this negativism towards individuals on the board. It still continues to go unnoticed although I am seeing a pattern of generalizations about medications handed down to people. Including myself, and I've seen no apologies towards lumping the "mentally ill" with "criminals" in previous threads. If you aren't a consumer, who are you to stand outside. An observer?
I think this is as dangerous as the sky is falling scenarios that are being created by someone who from the pattern of postings appears to be a new member on the board. Welcome. But it seems like just targets for trolling are being created without actually giving thoughtful researched knowledge to people.
Akathisia occurs with a number of medications rarely. It is an EPS, an extrapyramidal symptom. And if it is akathisia, there are mitigating medications for it. I've felt it big time once on Compazine. Have you ever ?
Cogentin happens to be somewhat more atropine inducing, but there is also Artane and procyclidine. There used to be Akineton which was a wonderful anticholinergic and had few atropine effects. Taking an anticholinergic in medically safe amounts for akathisia if the medication is necessary is not going to lead to any worse effects than the side effect already produces. Or for that matter propranolol which has had millions of patient-years experience, or even clonidine (with the caveat that you shouldn't start and stop propranolol or clonidine suddenly.)
No, there are no "cures" for side effects on medications. But there are mitigations that can make an important medication in someone's treatment tolerable if the use of the medication is better than the alternative. I once made a generalization in a posting about people on MAOIs, I backed off on it when I realized that I was being hurtful and I didn't know enough about them and the number of people on here who have been helped by them.
I fail to see how Luvox can possibly help akathisia when the standard protocol for treatment is 1) discontinue the akathisia generating medication if it is not medically necessary or 2) treat with an anticholinergic at a medically safe dose or propranolol, or yes, clonidine, which when taken properly is also a perfectly good choice and is used extensively in child psychiatry for hyperactivity. Luvox, as an SSRI can very rarely (Zoloft more so) in fact cause akathisia itself. So I can't see this argument at all. Its out of thin air.
And finally -- any antidepressant has the possibility of "inducing depression." These black box labels have been the CYA of all antidepressants of late. But if you look at cases, it is just as likely that the people who have supposedly gained suicidal behaviour from an antidepressant, might in fact be undertreated or have breakthrough depression.
I'm not asking that you don't express your opinion, I'm simply saying that the sky is falling diatribes towards medication do not help people who are seeking rational medical thought. Post as you may, but remember that we all have to be civil on here.-- tidings.
poster:yxibow
thread:728565
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070201/msgs/729199.html