Posted by pseudoname on April 20, 2006, at 10:52:10
In reply to Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by Emily Elizabeth on April 19, 2006, at 22:19:16
Every aspect of Wiener's essay screams insecure, oversensitive crybaby. EE is absolutely correct. Every psychiatrist receives LESS training in psychology and psychotherapy, even at the completion of their residency, than any psychologist, and clinical psych programs are are more selective the med schools.
Furthermore — talk about paranoid! — calling yourself a ‘psychopharmacologist’ does not necessarily mean ANY of Weiner's 6 itemized implications.
Look at #2: “I do not provide psychotherapy, either because I consider [it] irrelevant and not "scientifically" proved to be effective or I consider it less important…”
Maybe the psychopharmacologist considers therapy VERY important, something that should be done by SPECIALISTS who don't dabble in things they think they can do just because they have "Me Doktah" after their name. May she thinks therapy should be done by people who don't confuse themselves by embracing the medical model. Also, it's not reassurring that a physician would put scare quotes around the word "scientific".
I have NEVER met a psychiatrist (and this is in 20+ years of interaction with many) who had a more than a minimal grasp of psychological issues. Consider this conversation with my current pdoc, who provides therapy to her other patients.
At our SECOND APPOINTMENT EVER, she said she really wanted me to become a Jungian therapist. She went on & on for over ten minutes about it, how I could go to Switzerland for training, etc. I finally said, politely, “I don't think I would want to be a Jungian therapist.”
She looked hurt. I said, “You look hurt.”
In all seriousness she said, “Well, I am disappointed.” She barely knew me.
I said I didn't want to be a therapist at all. She said, “But you said you had wanted to be a psychotherapist.” I said, “No, I wanted to be a PSYCHOLOGIST.”
She was taken aback. “Is there a difference?” she said.
Me: "Well, most psychologists aren't clinical."
NLP: "Oh, they give people tests and so on?"
Me: "Some do. Some analyze statistics, some study neurons, some study animals..."
NLP: "Do they study the brain?"
Me: "Some of them, sure."
NLP: "Oh. You don't want to deal with PEOPLE!"
Me: [Reeling; long pause] "I do. I want to find things that are helpful to people."
NLP: "Do psychologists believe in the mind?"
Me: "Most do."
NLP: "Are there some who don't?"
Me: "Some, like behavior analysts, might see the mind as a metaphor."
NLP: "Everything's a metaphor."
Me: "Only metaphorically."
NLP: "Who are these who don't?"
Me: "Behavior analysts?" [She looks blank.] "You know, Skinnerians."
NLP: "Oh, him. He was crazy."
Me: "Could be."
NLP: "What about the soul? Jungian therapy deals with the soul. That's what Jungian personality types are used for. Do psychologists know about those?"
Me: "Well, another way of looking at that would be that people who use Jungian 'types' are being very selective in the details of a person that they look at and they may be blinding themselves to other possibilities."
NLP: [utterly stunned; she recovers] "Jungian therapy requires a leap of faith. You're logical. Others are intuitive."
Me: "I think I'm enormously intuitive. You don't have to give up one to experience the other."
She has no response to that.
I'm keeping her because she gives me the meds I ask for (and she's very nice), but wow.
Psychiatrists are deluded if they think they magically know enough about psychology to practice it. I'd love to give Weiner a test!!
poster:pseudoname
thread:634845
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060417/msgs/635238.html