Posted by yxibow on April 5, 2006, at 0:57:21
In reply to Re: Someone Prove Ashton Wrong!!!!!!!!!!....Please » yxibow, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2006, at 15:57:59
> Hi Yxi
>
> >5
>
> You said 10, I said 4. Some people say 3. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. 4 seems like a reasonable compromise between 3 and 5. It's only an approximation of course, and shouldn't be taken too seriously. It will vary from person to person anyway.Exactly. Some sources have said up to 10, thats why I said 10. I corrected to 5 from the first table in the dr-bob benzo list which I see as mostly accurate from my experience with benzodiazepines.
>
> >both have long half lives, Valium the longest, and thus less likely for abuse
>
> Diazepam and chlordiazepoxide are both metabolised to desmethyldiazepam. The likelihood of 'abuse' doesn't generally have much to do with half life, it's got more to do with whether or not a drug 'kicks in' suddenly and rapidly or not. Drugs with a rapid onset of action have greater recreational value eg. alcohol.Exactly, which is why Librium is used for alcohol abuse situations because it does not have nearly the kick and strength of Valium, which is why Valium really became the drug of choice of the brain child of Leo Sternbach.
However, Valium these days has lost its street value for the most part, this isnt the 70s -- Xanax is much higher I would bet.
And you're right about the metabolism, Librium has 4 metabolites though, that is just one of them. Valium has 3, two in common with Librium.
But that doesn't stop my belief that Ashton, or rather, the website that the person created who quotes her, is dangerous.
And being a UK site, it perhaps reflects the position of doctors in your country towards a medication class that while in some people can be habituated towards, helps millions of people around the world.
I still (yes I disclose that I take high dose Valium and thats a concern, but a possible necessity at the moment) believe that under the care of the right doctor, benzodiazepines are among the safest psychoactive drugs purely due to their very long history, over barbiturates, reducing the chance of overdosage.
As we examine drug classes closer and closer to the present, we are in a state of flux. TCAs, probably about the same, 50 years, with imipramine.
SSRIs, about 20-25 years, old line antipsychotics, 50 years, atypical antipsychotics, 40 years or so with Clozaril, around 10 years with Risperdal, and its followers.
Who knows what will be the drug of tomorrow -- but we can only estimate patient years in studies, in vitro -- in vivo of course is post marketing
Cheers
-- Jay
poster:yxibow
thread:626479
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060403/msgs/629056.html