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Re: Never thought I'd hear this..... » linkadge

Posted by SLS on March 16, 2006, at 10:36:57

In reply to Re: Never thought I'd hear this....., posted by linkadge on March 16, 2006, at 9:45:03

> I would argue that the moment you went manic, was the real moment that the true antidepressant responce was gone forever.

There may be some truth in your hypothesis. It almost fits the sequence of events that led up to the depression subsequent to my second manic reaction. I'll describe at greater length the specifics at some point in the future. I hope you are wrong, of course, but you may not be.

I am hoping that it was the subsequent pulsing of antidepressants that produced the treatment resistance. Unfortunately, my doctor at the time decided to try the newly-approved Prozac when I relapsed into depression. Then it was Parnate monotherapy. Then it was Nardil monotherapy. Then...

> > Stereotypy is not mania. The rats do not become manic.

> Nor do they become depressed?

They exhibit their depressive behaviors in the absence of drugs.

> If we throw away the mania model then we must throw away the depressed mouse model.

This is the thing. To my knowledge, a rodent model of mania in the absence of drugs does not yet exist.

> Manic mice show many similarities to manic people. Decreased sleep, increased sexual persuit, increased risk taking, increased hedonic activities, agressivness, hyperlocomotion. As well, biochemically they exhibit similarities. Increased catecholamine release, PKC overexpression, certain patterns of epileptiform activity.

Also seen in non-manic humans taking amphetamines and cocaine, no?

I admit that I really don't know enough about this stuff. However, the question raised is whether or not a manic reaction to therapeutic dosages of antidepressants indicates bipolar disorder. I guess the best way to assess this question is via a longitudinal investigation of people who have experienced this reaction, both retrospectively and prospectively.

I'm trying to find some stuff on the Net that would indicate which animal model of mania is currently accepted. I know that Dr. Manji has suggested models to be used to evaluate treatments for mania, but this still does not represent an induction of a mania in association with an antidepressant. I have not read about a rodent displaying hyperlocomotion, hypersexuality, etc. as a reaction to an antidepressant. As a matter of fact, Dr. Manji demonstrated that amphetamine alone was not sufficient as a model of mania, despite its capacity to produce hyperlocomotion and stereotypy. He needed to create a hyperlocomotive state using a combination of amphetamine + chlordiazepoxide to produce a state that was responsive to valproate.

http://www.psychogenics.com/pdf/biploar-disorders.pdf

Can amphetamine alone switch someone from depression into mania?

The irony is this: Dr. Manji evaluates the validity of an animal model of mania by determining whether or not it is attenuated by a mood stabilizer. This is tantamount to diagnosing bipolar disorder by evaluating response vs non-response to a mood stabilizer.


- Scott

 

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