Posted by paulbwell on November 6, 2005, at 4:26:10
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 4, 2005, at 23:13:29
> I've been taking barbiturates (lately Seconal or Alurate, but formerly Seconal or Tuinal) on and off for sleep for perhaps a year to sixteen months now. I have very treatment-resistant episodes of severe insomnia occasionally that will keep me awake for up to twelve days on end; after four days, I start to suffer the detrimental effects of sleep deprivation (i.e. slight visual disturbances at first, followed by full-blown visual and auditory hallucinations, then psychosis). Nothing else, outside of drinking large amounts along with my already-high dose of Xanax, taking large doses of opioids, or taking quite large doses of meprobamate helps (carisoprodol, OTOH, paradoxically excites me at doses exceeding 2100mg).
>
> I'm basically just chiming in to say I'd like to concur with essentially what everyone has said so far. Chairman MAO is absolutely correct that phenobarbital, as well as primidone (Mysoline; a prodrug of phenobarbital), and butalbital (part of Fioricet/Fiorinal) to a lesser degree, is quite easy to obtain from overseas. He was also correct that, typically, a doctor will at least want pretty hard evidence that nothing "softer" works for you (e.g. Ambien, or even Halcion) before going to sodium secobarbital. I was lucky and didn't have to submit to a sleep study -- my doctors just trusted me that nothing they were prescribing was working.
>
> I also want to say that Matt was pretty dead on in his descriptions of the effects of the two barbiturates Nembutal and Seconal. Unfortunately, Nembutal (or pentobarbital) is available only in liquid form for I.V. (perhaps also I.M.?) injection and suppositories these days. I've had the good fortune of trying some of the capsules a few years ago, though they were obtained illicitly. I would take it over Seconal if it weren't for the lack of a readily-available oral preparation.
>
> As for chloral hydrate or chloral betaine, they're worth a try, no? They worked for me for a while, and chloral betaine is less upsetting to the stomach. I'm not sure about chloral betaine, but chloral hydrate is still available in both liquid *and* gelcap forms (AquaChloral, Somnote).
>
> I'm not sure if it's still possible to get something like glutethimide (formerly Doriden), ethchlorvynol (formerly Placidyl), or methyprylon (formerly Noludar) filled . . . perhaps at a compounding pharmacy? They're all still only CII drugs, unlike methaqualone (Quaalades), unfortunately.
>
> Well, best of luck to you! If anyone knows how horrible living with insomnia can be, it's me. :-^Cheers dude,'m avare of your use of seconal, and Tuinal (Secobarbital+Amobarbital?,-which you said worked better? than seconal?. Nembutal-(Pentobarbital)100mg yellow caps WERE the best their was in that category, apparently?
A couple nights ago, i wish like flip i had some effective sleep meds. I had had, a few drinks, and was feeling ragged, so took 30mgs crushed, sublingually Diazepam, and, thank God, got some hours of ok sleep,-nothing like 12 hours or anything, which i could expect from a couple Seconal, Tuinal, or Methaquaalone tabs-but SOME relief.Good quality, out of it sleep, is VERY important, and essential for good mental health.
Cheers dude!!
>
> Best Wishes,
> ~Michael
poster:paulbwell
thread:575246
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20051106/msgs/575890.html