Posted by Elroy on September 3, 2005, at 15:32:20
In reply to Re: Remeron Protocol as Anti-Cortisol, posted by Tenifer on September 2, 2005, at 10:12:44
Hello.
Still following the 60 mg daily protocol. To update, my cortisol level in April was a 214 (note reference range for all of these listings for cortisol is 20 - 100). I started Remeron on June 7th. One week at 15 mg, one week at 30 mg, one week at 45 mg and then on to the 60 mg. level. I then tested on July 19th. My cortisol level was a 94 (93.9). That was the FIRST cortisol testing that had been in the normal range since this whole weird situation started in June of 2004. I was on Remeron for six weeks at the time of the testing and only at the full dose for three weeks.
I am trying to get my Endo to move my cortisol testing process up a month so that I do my next testing this month rather than waiting until next month (mid Sept rather than mid October). That will give me an additional eight weeks at the full dose level when cortisol testing is done (testing done via 24-hr UFC tests). The interesting question will be whether or not the Remeron continued to bring cortisol levels down even further.
I then want to stop the Remeron around the first of October and test again in two weeks (i.e., mid October). The objective will be to see if the Remeron has not only brought the cortisol levels down sufficiently (after all 94 is just barely within the reference range), but also if the lowered cortisol levels have allowed the HPA Axis to rest sufficiently so that it has "re-set" (thereby allowing a return to normal secretion levels). Or do the cortisol levels start climbing back up as soon as the Remeron is stopped?
Back earlier in the year I tried an experiment on my own. Starting around late November of last year I began using OTC anti-cortisol products and by late December was using them very aggressively (high doses used frequently). Those OTC products included Phosphatidylserine, Magnolia bark, Epimedium, Rhodiola rosea, Ashwagandha,
Holy Basil, Melatonin, Beta-sitosterol, and Gingko Biloba.My mid December (2004) cortisol testing levels were 222. I then tested again in mid February. This test followed the above "aggressive" OTC supplementation from mid December or so until the testing in mid February. Interestingly, this OTC approach (emphasizing its aggressive nature) resulted in my mid February cortisol levels testing at a 108. So eight to ten weeks of aggressive OTC supplementation brought the cortisol from a 222 to a 108 - as compared with Remeron which in six weeks (only three at full dose however) brought cortisol levels from a 214 to a 94.
I continued taking the OTC approach until the first of April. I stopped for two full weeks before the next cortisol testing. That was the test result showing the 214. So.... while the OTC approach (pursued in a very aggressive fashion) had some positive results in lowering cortisol (though not quite into the normal ranges), the "natural approach" clearly did not create an environment that allowed the HPA Axis to "re-set" and allow cortisol secretion levels to normalize. Maybe that approach would have allowed that process to occur if it had been continued for a longer time period???
So that's the question with the Remeron. It - like the aggressive OTC approach - has proven that it can significantly lower the cortisol. Can it lower it further (94 is still pretty high cortisol levels in that reference range)? And can the lowered levels result in the re-setting of the HPA Axis to allow normalized cortisol secretion patterns?
That appears to be what has been happening in the successful results shown in various clinical studies employing the use of mifepristone. The cortisol levels get reduced sufficiently for the HPA Axis to "re-set", cortisol levels become normalized and AD therapies work very quickly. What is so interesting is that the clinical trials of mifepristone have been very short-term (4 to 7 days generally) and yet have had such positive results. Unfortunately even though mifepristone has been "fast-tracked" by the FDA, it is probably still quite a ways off from being approved.
Will Remeron perform something similar although over a much longer time period?
We will see.
Elroy
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> Elroy,
>
> I've been following this thread and think of you often. I hope all is going well wth this protocol. Could you pop in and let everyone know how you're doing?
>
> Wishing you the best. :)
>
> David
poster:Elroy
thread:536897
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050901/msgs/550398.html