Posted by MindReseacher on September 8, 2004, at 22:23:03
In reply to Re: Subutex / buprenorphine » steveb, posted by 4WD on September 8, 2004, at 14:22:13
Hi, i just came across your post. I have been on suboxone for 8 months. To give you a brief past, i was using oxycontins and Heroin, nasally, for about 8 months, every day, up to 5-6 bags on average or 5-6 oxy 40mgs. It was total full bloan addiction, i could not stop, even after a rehab for 10 days, which i walked out of. Now i have not been on opiates that long, but the addiction to oxys and heroin ( in my opinion, are basically the same, oxys actually are worse to come off, for me. I tried, detoxing with vicodin ect, with no luck, except for eating all of them.
Now my addiction is funny. I drank alcohol for 10 yrs, but moderately, maybe 5 beers a few nights a week, and one night alot. But never felt i had a problem. I then started using ghb, which after a few months, i was using it 24/7 for 3 yrs. I thought id never stop, until i ended up in a long term rehab. I was clean of all drugs for 9 months, then for some unlucky, (very very lucky i thought at the time), a guy was giving me like 30 oxy 40mgs every 3 weeks for basically nothing. Well one 40mg turned into 2, then up to 6 or more daily, nasally. After a few months, i could not get oxys anymore, i switched To heroin nasally. Basically felt the same, except did not itch as much as oxy, H hit me quicker and did not last as long. BOTH, killed my bank account. Just in like 2 months!!
Well, in january, a friend of mine introduced me to suboxone, who was also on H. He told me how to contact a list of doctors, i found a doctor about 1 hr away from me, made an appointmet. By mid jan , or so, I got my first appointment and was perscribed 8mg's 3x daily. Which is the top dose. I worked like a dream for withdrawls, but for some people, like me, it did not elimnate all cravings and i was still missing something, feeling bored, unmotivated, not much energy or "zest for life".
I did relapse on suboxone, but dont, i repeat dont let this make you think subxone wont work for long term. Some people love em, some dont respond well. I just basically did not want to stay clean, plus I didnt know i had severe ADD.
After 2 months, my doc diagnosed me with ADD, after that test, and was persribed adderall 20mg 2x daily. Let me tell you, that hit nail on the head. I felt 80 percent better, motivated, more focus, mental function, less cravings, and seems to work "synergystically" with suboxone and a small dose of Klonopin., .5mg -1mg as needed.
THese 3 meds, along with 10mg of lexapro, kept me above water, i did not use, even though yes i did have cravings, but not as much as subxone alone, let alone without suboxone, I would probably be in rehab for another 6 months.
I believe Suboxone (IMO) is a great drug, with less abuse potential than methadone, due to the partial agonist of Mu opiate receptor, And antagonist of Kappa receptor. Some opiate "nieve" users do get "semi high" if they take 2-3 8mgs of suboxone. But an opiate tolerant person, will just become unsick, or feel normal. But with the addition of Adderall and some Klonopin, i felt so much better, all around, being depression, anxiety, social phobia, ADD, drug cravings, and life seems much much better.Now some "aa/na" members, which i must say i do attend, would say im just using another drug. Well, I can state alot of opinons and facts about drug addiction. I dont believe that just because a person is an opiate addict, will abuse every drug. I would never snort cocaine, do acid, smoke pot, drink more than 6 beers, overtake or abuse klonopin, or speed. I dont intend to nor have any craving to. So, i believe the PROPER medication to help both drug craving and Mental disorders, is at the top of the anti-drug list. Yes, Na/aa also help alot, along with family support, theorapy, and proper nutrition.
Back to suboxone. Another opinion i have. THis is due in comparison to methadone. I would say if an addict had failed several times at drug treatment, tried and failed on suboxone, also uses the drugs I.V. , well i would say Methadone would help them, keep from using Heroin oxys, etc, and would prevent such person from doing illegal drug like acts, Risk Disease via Needle usage, Keep the addict stable on methadone, just so they are not craving or wanting to use, after various other attempts. But methadone in itself is very addictive, yet is controlled, so you have to go to the clinic every day and get your dose. You cant abuse it, unless say you hide the pill, not swallowing it, or better yet, give him or her the Liquid Methadone. ETC ETC.
But for an addict, like myself, who hasnt been using opiates for very long, does not use needles, Did remain clean after 2 rehabs but relapsed, and does not do "anything" for a hit, such as committing numerous crimes , etc, suboxone can be a great option. (note this is my opinion). I have read persons who were flat out 15-20 bags i.v daily heroin addicts who quit using suboxone, and in retrospect, had persons try suboxone and puked or just got sick, and they harldy used. I seem to fall in the middle, moresoe, my ADD, and depression , seem to be a big part of the addiction puzzle.
My doctor works with me, unlike some doctors who you tell honestly you have a problem with say oxycontin, and will not even give you ambien for sleep. Well, imo, you just waisted 100 dollars, give or take, unless you have insurance, which you still may waist 15.00 plus medication costs.
I dont see how straterra would be benificial for ADD, esp severe cases. Or Welbutrin, but alot of doctors will not write you any amphetamines, or Ritalin, so you end up on Welbutrin or Straterra. Then you are persribed adarax, which is basically just antihistamine, instead of some xanax for anxiety. On top of this, you may not even get more than 8mg of suboxone. Coming off more than 5 bags or oxys, you need at least 16mgs , i would imagine from what i have researched. Then anxiety, a benzo is a must, and a good antidepressant which will cause the least side effects and work faily quickly. I do great on lexapro, at a low 10mg dose, i have no side effects and im not depressed. Zoloft also helped me with depression.To sum this up, access your problem. Get a good doctor, one who is certified to perscribe suboxone, subutex. Have a diagnoses if you suffer from any mental disorders, or dual diagnoses, work out alot, and take nutritional supplements. IF you do, say have good results with Suboxone, 8-16mg dose is a good maintenance dose ( Now i can get away with 8mgs daily), If you are depressed, get on a good antidepressant, a months worth of xanax or Klonopin for axiety would be nice, something to help sleep, like remeron, or Ambien, and if your the 80% of addictive persons who suffer from ADD, and there are 6 types, Id would say Adderall or dexadrine. If your honest, and you find your abusing adderall, or dex, tell your doc, maybe you will do ok on welbutrin or Straterra.
My regiment is currently (5 months clean)
Lexapro 10mg
Suboxone 16mg 2x daily
Adderall 30mg 2x daily (although need a 3rd dose)
Klonopin .5mg 3x daily, or 1-2 mg at bedtime.Note, the reason i mentioned the 3rd dose is because adderall for me wears off in 5-6 hrs, so i get maybe 11-12 hrs tops of adderall effects. That leaves me with another 6 hrs due tothe fact i only sleep for 6-7 hrs. But I have to talk this over with my doctor, or swith to ADDERALL XR if my insurance will pick it up.
MindReseacher
poster:MindReseacher
thread:386509
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040904/msgs/388439.html