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Re: Does Nardil also have speed metabolites? » don_bristol

Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 18, 2003, at 0:18:20

In reply to Does Nardil also have speed metabolites? » Ame Sans Vie, posted by don_bristol on September 17, 2003, at 4:17:33

> After my Moclobemide pooped out I am now just starting Nardil. I am having a few troublesome side effects which may pass...

Hang in there! I hear the side effects tend to subside after about six months.

> My BIG question to you is ... does Nardil have these similar speed-like metabolites?

There is a chemical class known as the phenethylamines (or phenylethylamines). Some of the most well known chemicals in this group are:

*(S)-1-aminobenzenepropanoic acid: l-phenylalanine (the common amino acid which is a stimulating precursor of catecholamines)
*3-Phenethylamine: PEA (the brain's "natural amphetamine"/the "chocolate amphetamine")
*(±)-1-Phenethylamine: Benzedrine (racemic amphetamine; dextro-levo-amphetamine)
*N-Benzyl-N,1-dimethylbenzeneethanamine hydrochloride: benzphetamine HCl (Didrex)
*(+)-N,1-Dimethylbenzeneethanamine hydrochloride: dextro-methamphetamine HCl (Desoxyn; the name "Desoxyn" comes from an alternate chemical name for d-meth, (+)-desoxyephedrine)
*(-)-N,1-Dimethylbenzeneethanamine hydrochloride: levo-methamphetamine HCl (the active ingredient in Vicks Inhalers; this is why so many kitchen chemists think they're getting "meth" by extracting the l-meth from Vicks -- it's meth they're getting, but it ain't the right kind, lol)
*3,4-Methylenedioxy-N-amphetamine: MDA ("Love Drug"; common in the 70's, often sold today as Ecstasy)
*3,4-Methylenedioxy-N-ethylamphetamine: MDE ("Eve", also often misrepresented as Ecstasy)
*3,4-Methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine: MDMA (Ecstasy)
*L-1-(1-Methylaminoethyl)benzyl alcohol: ephedrine
*(+)-1-(1-Methylaminoethyl)benzyl alcohol hydrochloride: pseudoephedrine HCl (Sudafed)
*(±)-1-Phenyl-2-piperidineacetic acid methyl ester hydrochloride: methylphenidate HCl (Ritalin/Concerta/Metadate)
*(+)-1-Phenyl-2-piperidineacetic acid methyl ester hydrochloride: dexmethylphenidate HCl (Focalin)
*4-Bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine: 2C-B ("Nexus", a powerful psychedelic substituted amphetamine)
*2,5-Dimethoxy-4,1-dimethylbenzeneethanamine: known either as DOM or STP (another powerful psychedelic)

As you can see, most phenethylamines are stimulants and/or psychedelics, and many of those that aren't are chemical precursors to those same stimulants/psychedelics. So it's a bit interesting that Effexor, Nardil and Parnate are phenethylamines as well:

Nardil (phenelzine sulfate): 2-Phenylethylhydrazine sulfate
Parnate (tranylcypromine sulfate): 2-(Diethylamino)propiophenone sulfate
Effexor (venlafaxine HCl): 1-[1-[(Dimethylamino)methyl] p-methoxybenzyl] cyclohexanol hydrochloride

Also, one of Nardil's metabolites is PEA (3-Phenethylamine -- the natural amphetamine I mentioned above).

> Also, do you suppose that Nardil increases norepinephrine significantly less than Parnate does?

Well, I imagine that, in equivalent doses, they are comparable in their actions on MAO-A inhibition (and thus NE levels), but all my research has suggested that Parnate causes a flood of NE to be released. So, it may or may not increase NE levels more than Nardil, but it certainly increases the *activity* of NE more than Nardil.

I'd have thought that this flood of NE would make Parnate basically a self-contraindicated medication, but then I came across a study which demonstrated that reboxetine (a NE-reuptake inhibitor) *prevents* hypertensive crises on Parnate!


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poster:Ame Sans Vie thread:260171
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030917/msgs/261228.html