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Re: UPDATE » Jasmine Neroli

Posted by Peter on August 25, 2003, at 12:04:43

In reply to Re: UPDATE » Peter , posted by Jasmine Neroli on August 25, 2003, at 1:13:13

> Aagh! I wrote a really long post and somehow lost it! I'm trying to re-write it now .Sorry.
> Well Salut Peter! I'm finally back in cyber-psych space. How are you doing? The South of France sounds like a lovely place to be.
> I have posted some thoughts about my "newbie" Klonipin experiences to another thread addressed to you and Ames, today. In it you will see that today I am very tired and low for the first time since off my AD. I, like you, have isolated myself and withdrawn, and I'm now wondering if this is a KLonipin affect. But I was not feeling this way before, on it ??? Do you think your "up's and downs" may have more to do with Klonipin, than to Adderall rebound?
>>Hi Jasmine. I think the ups and downs for me are probably a combination of both meds working on me. When taking only klonopin, I definitely experience a mood that is more toward the depressive side, so I'm more prone to isolation and social withdrawal. Even though klonopin lowers my overall anxiety and helps me feel a bit less self-conscious in public (thus the anti social-anxiety effects), I still tend to have difficulties in social situations or even, for that matter, in getting involved in constructive things when I am alone, because the klonopin tends to lower my overall mood and leave me bereft of 'pep' and energy.
It's all so confusing.
>>that it is(-: How much klonopin are you taking now? I noticed you said you didn't feel these undesirable effects in the past when taking klonopin? Is the dose you are taking now different than then? Were you taking it along with any other meds, like an AD, in the past?
> I read your Update and your Adderall query posts. Did you end up doing the 4 day Adderall trial? It sounded like a good idea to me... a kinda "middle of the road" approach, whilst you observed what happened. I don't think it would be too difficult to taper off, after such a relatively short time.
>>Well, what happened was I kept going back and forth throughout the week. It was infuriating. One day I'd say to myself: 'all right. I'm fed up with feeling low and dull on the klonopin. Tomorrow I'm starting up the adderall; end of subject!' But then the next day, when I took the adderall, I felt the beneficial energy and alertness, but it also gave me some undesirable side-effects to which I seemed much more senstizied than when I'd taken it in th past; these included waves of anticipatory anxiety, triggering of more obsessional-type anxiety, and the 'crash,' when I would feel completely inert, braindead, and zombie-like. That ended up making me just as socially-avoidant as the klonopin, albeit in a differnt way! So then I'd say: 'these feelings outweigh the adderall's benefits, so tomorrow I'm just going to go back to the 3.25mg daily klonopin dose without adderall.' This is how it was going, until I finally decided to call my pdoc's substitute; I explained what I could to him, and he said I should avoid the adderall during the week-end, stay on the 3.25mg klonopin, and try to 'take a vacation from med managing,' and distract myself, etc. It was good advice-like the advice you gave me in a recent post regarding my trying to direct my thoughts outside of myself. So I tried throughout the weekend to keep myself busy, even though I was overall pretty low and tired; I made myself exercise each day, which helped a bit. But when I tried reading a book, practicing piano, or composing, it all felt like a series of chores that I wanted to just get over with! My anxiety levels had decreased, but nothing interested or stimulated me, and I couldn't keep myself involved in anything. I also feel even now an inner restlesness. This all sounds like ADHD peaking thru the klonopin, but who knows. It's quite frustrating.
> I don't know much about Adderall and would leave that advice for others that have used it. But I do know that CNS stimulants in general are notorious for the suddenly "dropping off" effect. So maintaining a consistent dosage is so crucial, and ANYTHING interferes....lack of sleep, other stimulants, food, energy exertion. Adderall sounds the same. I wish you could do without it,Peter, your love/hate relationship with it is such a draining force, isn't it?
>>It is. That's why I'd probably fare better on a dopaminergic AD-type med like wellbutrin or strattera. The annoying thing is that I've already given both of these adequate trials and they proved ineffective - but I only tried them combines with multiple other meds, so who knows what was synergy and what were the individual meds' innate actions?
> You mentioned having a few beers to help you feel "up". Well, I just realized now, upon reading that, that I have drank a LOT OF STRONG ESPRESSO in the past coupla days...maybe that's me looking for a stimulant whilst on the Klonipin??!! Anyway, since alcohol is a CNS depressant, wouldn't you feel more "low" afterwards? O the tail-chasing syndrome of drugs...haha!
>>Well, if I had one too many beers, I'd begin to feel low; but my initial reaction seems to stimulate me; maybe it just helps me feel less 'dull,' but not less tired. In fact, last night I had a few glasses of wine at a restaurant and I ended up hours later feeling very restless and my RHR was up to 120bpm! And I thought alcohol + klonopin would increase CNS depression! It's all complex and difficult to figure out.
>>Believe it or not, this is very contrary to my past posts, but the only thing that now helps me feel interested and stimulated is a few puffs of pot! I know I had told you of that bad experience that one night, but I think that was really before the klonopin had a chance to decrease my overall anxiety. Now it seems to somewhat help me; I'm only smoking a bit with my brother late-night, but I surely don't think this is the right solution! And I definitely don't want to become a 24/7 stoner again like I was in High-School and University!
> BTW, when I saw my doc for the Klonipin, he suggested I consider Effexor to help with my mild obsessional/ritualistic behaviour..which returned with my anxiety 2 weeks ago. Did you ever try Effexor? I seem to remember you saying you had tried a lot of AD's.
>>Yep. I tried effexor years ago, but it was not a fair trial, because, firstly, I was taking a lot of other meds, and, secondly, I was abusing drugs and alcohol before I even started the effexor and through the few weeks that I was using it. Those were darker days. I'd be interested to see how it would affect me now.
> Actually, since my anxieties have been controlled by the Klonipin, I no longer have the obsessions again. So maybe it's not even an issue.
>>Well it might help some of your other symptoms of anxiety, isolation, etc..and it can keep the obsessions at bay, maybe?
> Well, you have one more week in France, and I have one more week before I am back at work (at a Middle School!). Hope we BOTH have a good time!
>>Me too!
>> Peter


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