Posted by McPac on August 12, 2003, at 19:32:45
In reply to Re: Anybody use Lithium for this purpose? » McPac, posted by DSCH on August 12, 2003, at 14:13:51
Hi DS!
Am I right in thinking that your interest in substituting something else for your low maintenance dose of lithium is related to the blood histamine results you are getting back from Pfeiffer?
>>>>>>>>>>> No, this has nothing to do w/ Pfeiffer....I've just always used lithium in this way for Soooooo many years that I always wondered if anyone else was using it more as a "nerve stabilizer" than as an anti-manic.
For those who haven't picked up the whole story from your discussions with Larry it would help if you summarized their orthomolecular RX for you, your current pharm regimen, and the problems you feel right now.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I'm a one-finger typist so I try my best to keep things succinct (though I often fail at that, lol)......so here goes: I first went to Pfeiffer in late 2002.......they tested me (hair, blood, urine) and I answered a LOT of their questions (lengthy patient/family history)......they run a LOT of tests to gain insight into the biochemistry of the patient....based on their test findings (and from the info they gather from you), they devise a treatment plan.......with me, they found that I had very high histamine levels...also, I had a zinc deficiency (my copper levels were too high)....also, a condition called pyrroluria (genetic stress disorder that causes you to lose vitamin B6 & zinc (and Pfeiffer says that this then blocks the body from producing serotonin)...(hey, I don't know what to make of all of their theories, I'm just trying to follow their treatment plan and see what happens)....there were other things too (regarding homocysteine)....but, from what I gathered from them, the high histamine was the "biggie" (though they do try to get everything running smoothly, biochemically speaking)
Also, weren't you doing *better* before Pfeiffer?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is very difficult to answer.
There are TOO damn many variables to figure out...here's what I mean...when I went there, I had multiple problems...I have been treated for years for major depression (probably bipolar), OCD, anxiety (the usual load of crap that us Babblers deal with).....I was taking low-dose lithium, Zoloft and low-dose Remeron (for terrible chronic insomnia)......soooo, Pfeiffer puts me on my individualized nutrient treatment plan (LOTS of vitamins, minerals, etc.) to try to straighten out my biochemistry.......(they don't make you buy your supps from them, that's up to you).......now, I wasn't feeling too good right at the time I went to them....I was taking too puny a dose of lithium (even for me), various ssri's had always caused anger problems (Prozac made me NUTZ!) and I wanted off my Zoloft because that was causing bad anger as well....anyway, I started taking my nutrient therapy and DILIGENTLY (NEVER missed a dose) kept taking it.....for a long while I felt VERY, VERY lethargic (had to be from the nutrient plan, nothing else had changed...my body has adjusted much better now)......so I took the supps every day for about 7 months, then less than 2 months ago I returned there for my follow-up testing.......the results came back that my histamine level had RISEN from 129 to 186! I was not happy....one nurse said, "well, it's a different season"....yes, true, the first time I tested was in October, the 2nd in late June, so my allergies were much worse at that time of year, perhaps that was a valid reason why the level went the wrong way.....my pyrroluric condition improved, my zinc level fell further (go figure) but my zinc-copper ratio had improved.....I was mostly disappointed about the histamine level though......but, if the question is "Did I feel Worse after Pfeiffer than before?".....stay with me now.....VARIABLES, VARIABLES, too many damn variables make anything hard to figure out....while at Pfeiffer, I told one nurse that I strongly hypothesized that Zoloft was causing me VERY terrible anger and that it would be hard to tell if Pfeiffer's plan was helping because this terrible anger was OVERRIDING everything! I have since DITCHED the Zoloft (it lifted my moods greatly but anger side effect was TOO bad).....what I did was increase the Remeron and made it my anti-dep AND ocd med (though it packs a milder AD "punch"; Remeron seems like a weak AD to me), and I still take my puny lithium dose (it may need raised a bit).......I'm looking for a mood-LIFT (quite a few options)..........I still get "mini" anger spells, definitely not as bad as with Zoloft but I'm wondering WHAT causes that! Happens all of a sudden, my face will actually get hot, like "flushed" feeling, it's a "feeling" that just arises quickly, I can tell it's something from "inside" me.....don't know if raising lithium could help (or hurt) that.....could be one of these MANY supps also???.......it will be nice to see IF I ever get this histamine level WAY DOWN, what kind of an effect that might have.....I was pretty damn hyper when I went to Pfeiffer and THAT is one thing that has been much better, for whatever reason....my body seems to have been "calmed", my brain is another matter!......I was considering going to Pfeiffer, but their breakdown of *everyone* (monopolar depressives, bipolars, ADHD, schizophrenic, etc.) into just four treatment categories strikes me as.... well.... hehehe... I will remain civil. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, they try to straighten out whatever biochemical imbalances you have...don't worry about "treatment categories"
I was jazzed about them until I read some of your posts and then saw this page. I look at that, and I see myself crossing boundaries in the chart
>>>>>>>>> It's harder to treat somebody who has multiple imbalances (like me) and more difficult imbalances (lowering histamine alone can be a real PAIN!!!! I'm going to stick this out w/ Pfeiffer for some time and see where it all pans out!
They should run that database through a Bayesian neural network
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yeah, I just hope they don't have some dolt, sitting in their lab and trying to decipher my results with his Captain Crunch Decoder Ring!
Also: is what's going on on the other side of the blood/brain barrier fully reflected in the blood, urine, and hair?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there is still a good deal of "guess work" going on, at Pfeiffer and everywhere else also....no one's got all the answers
Sorry if this doesn't help, I just had to vent some of my dissapointment at having my hopes raised and then take a hit. :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, I would NOT discourage you from going to Pfeiffer! It's NOT a magical, come-and-be-cured place for everybody....I'm SURE they HAVE helped a LOT of folks.....for me, I'll give them a shot.....in some ways it has already been worth my going there....TAKE CARE!!!! (You got this one-finger typist to type ALL this!?! Now I've got to go and soak my poor finger! lol)
poster:McPac
thread:250266
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030812/msgs/250379.html