Posted by Ron Hill on June 17, 2003, at 12:22:57
In reply to Lamictal-I'm so sleepy! Ron Hill-what supplements?, posted by fluffy on June 15, 2003, at 17:27:43
Hi Ms. Katy Fluff,
> I guess I've heard that Lithium has an antidepressant quality as well.
Yeah, I've heard the same thing. So apparently it does for some people, but not for me.
> And since it is compatible with Lamictal, it's a less complicted alternative for an add-on.
Yeah, makes sense.
> I'm quite frightened of SSRI's now, after my last *scary* experience with them. I'm just glad I'm alive after that.
For a bipolar patient, taking an SSRI without a moodstabilizer can be disastrous. Some BP II folks find benefit from adding a low dose of an SSRI to a moodstabilizer but others, like me do not.
> If I might ask, Ron--What kind of nutritional supplements do you take? I know nothing of this approach to treating depression, except that fish oil can help and that magnesium can help sleep disturbance.
As it stands today, I’m doing exceptionally well (thanks in no small part to the information given to me by posters to this board). I feel confident that my current cocktail is going to last long-term, but I have learned over the years that there are no guarantees with any of this stuff.
In answer to your question, I currently take 600 mg/day of Lithobid for my hypomania, 2.5 mg once or twice a week of ENADA NADH in conjunction with 250 mg/day of TMG for my depression, and a 125 mg dose of niacin (vitamin B3) twice or three times per day to control my dysphoric mood states (irritability to the tenth power).
ENADA NADH is the supplement that is most responsible for keeping my atypical depression at bay. However, it can cause irritability if I take too much. TMG seems to work in a favorable synergistic way with the Enada NADH.
The benefit I find in adding TMG is that it seems to extend the time period of effectiveness for a given dose of ENADA NADH. In other words, without TMG, a 2.5 mg dose of ENADA NADH loses its effectiveness after about four days. But with TMG, it can last for almost a week. Therefore, TMG indirectly reduces my irritability by reducing my ENADA NADH dosing frequency. I think TMG is also providing a mild antidepressant effect.
However, the supplement that fixed my irritable (dysphoric) mood states is niacin. The effect is profound. The addition of niacin allows me the flexibility of taking 2.5 mg of ENADA NADH twice a week if I need the more frequent dosing to manage my atypical depressive symptoms. In addition to doing an amazing job on my irritability, I believe that niacin is providing me a slight antidepressant effect.
I’m told that niacinamide (another form of vitamin B3) is even better than niacin for irritability. Therefore, I may conduct a trial of niacinamide (either with or without niacin).
Like you, I take various vitamins, minerals, and fish oil. I also take a daily capsule of phosphatidyl serine (PS). It is thought that PS promotes cell membrane placidity (more supple) and, thereby, improves the functioning of the neurotransmitter receptors. PS is kind of spendie at a retail price of roughly $0.75 per capsule (containing 100 mg of PS). The PS, vitamins, minerals, and fish oil are all beneficial for me, but not as profound in effect as ENADA NADH.
I take 20 ml (4 tsp)/day of fish oil. It helps stabilize my mood and I believe it provides a slight antidepressant effect.
I take 800 mg of magnesium at bedtime each night and it knocks me out like turning off a light and keeps me asleep throughout the night like a hibernating bear. I awake the next morning feeling refreshed and restored. YMMV. I'm also convinced that the magnesium exerts positive effects on my brainchemistry functioning throughout the day. Larry Hoover can say it better than I, but not all forms of magnesium are created equal when it comes to absorption. I take 400 mg/day (measured as Mg) of magnesium citrate and 400 mg/day (measured as Mg) of magnesium malate. If it causes diarrhea, back off on the dosage.
Katy, please reply with a list of the specific symptoms of the depressive side of your BP II. It is my opinion that ENADA NADH is best suited to treat atypical depressive symptoms (e.g.; anhedonia, anergy, low motivation, apathy, hypersomnia, etc) attributable to dopaminergic pathway problems. If your depression is not atypical, other supplements (or medications) might serve you better.
> On another topic, though...
> Lately, I've noticed that I feel REALLY, REALLY sedated in the afternoons. It can fade by evening, but I feel like I'm going to sleep standing up. (maybe 'cause I work in a bookstore...it's sometimes VERY boring). But even then, it doesn't feel like just being sleepy..I feel like I got konked on the head, and 'poof' I'm sleepy for 4 hours, starting at the same time of day. It doesn't feel like depression sleepiness either, because I don't have the accompanying self esteem problems. Could this be related to my Lamictal dose and/or timing of dose? My next appt. with my pdoc isn't for awhile.Do you take your Lamictal once a day or twice a day? Maxime’s recommendation to take your Lamictal at bedtime might be worth a try if you are dosing once a day.
-- Ron
Here are some of the links discussing ENADA NADH:
http://www.healthwell.com/hnbreakthroughs/mar98/nadh.cfm?path=hw
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8101444&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9247090&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9013405&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10047,00.html#Cautions
http://www.nadh.com/site7/SYSact20.htm#Top
http://www.nadh.com/site7/RSdprs05.htm#Top
http://www.smart-drugs.com/article-JamesSouth-NADH.htm
http://www.nadh-priceinfo.org/
http://qualitycounts.com/fpnadh.html
http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/3118/T/Both/
http://www.immunesupport.com/library/powersearch2.cfm (Note: enter “NADH” as keyword)
poster:Ron Hill
thread:99976
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030614/msgs/234565.html