Posted by ace on April 19, 2003, at 0:49:07
In reply to Ace,Re: HUGE decision for me....please give advice, posted by McPac on April 17, 2003, at 23:41:28
> For the most part ocd thoughts and cognitive rituals ie. 'bad' thoughts try to push in and say 'yes' to 'pain', I have to think a 'good' though over it to 'cover' myself and stop the pain (which does come in unless i 'protect' myself)
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Ace, have you ever just ALLOWED the bad thoughts, when they do come, to come....WITHOUT FIGHTING THEM?Thanks for the response dude!
About 2 years ago I was doing intensive therapy on my OCD. Not only was I accepting them, at times I was encouraging them. But the problem is - it made me worse!! For instance, sometimes I think (and have pain) about a 'bad' thought I said 'yes' to 2 yrs ago!!I just find it to scary to go back...it would be different if it helped heaps, but, even at the time, it only provided minimal relief.
At times I got spiritual and thought to accept every part of me - even OCD thoughts. Didn't work.
I just think of it now like a disease which words can't help. If you talk to a broken leg or scratch it it will annoy it. Same with OCD.
But this is my opinion and if it works for you that is excellant. We are all very different and I believe even people with OCD have different oCD's and diff causes.
Fighting them is the WORST thing you can do---it simply FUELS them all the more! Try to 'detach' yourself from the thoughts, NOT by trying to chase them away or resisting them,....try to sit back and 'observe' the thoughts as a spectator would....when they come start taking rythmic breaths---in slowly through your nose, out slowly through your mouth, keep doing that, focus your mind on your heart beating (picture your heart, picture it slowing down, picture the blood slowing down, keep breathing slowly this way, IF the thoughts force their way into your mind DON'T FIGHT THEM...RECOGNIZE the thought for what it is, NOT a rational thought with any logic or real power (it's just the stupid OCD talking it's hogwash again)...LET IT SAY what it wants to say...tell it calmly "yeah, yeah, yeah, you're just ocd, with nothing IMPORTANT or REAL to say (UNDERSTAND that it is NOT a LEGITIMATE THOUGHT, it ONLY has whatever power that you give it! Recognize it as nothing but blabbering chatter! Focus on your breaths, picture your heart slowing down, down, down. But DON'T fight it----tell it (the ocd), "oh, it's you again, well come on in and say whatever you've got to say", LET IT TALK! (When you STOP fighting and resisting it, first, the body will begin to SLOW DOWN and relax RATHER THAN shooting out MORE and MORE adrenaline, which would ONLY serve to make it WORSE!)I think it's useful to say 'It's not me, it's the oCD'
> Have you tried the SSRI's (Zoloft, Luvox, etc)?
>
> Zolft - did little.
>
> DOSAGE is very important Ace! Many ocd sufferers take too small a dose and often quit the med BEFORE it begins working. Take a HIGH ENOUGH DOSE and for a long enough period of time before deciding the med didn't work. (OCD often requires a HIGHER dose than depression does for meds).I took 200mg for almost 3 years. 25mg had the same effect as 200mg!
> SSRIs I am not a big fan of due to much literature I've read on them.
> But in the future maybe Luvox.
>
> It's always a 'balancing act', balancing benefits/side effects....when the OCD gets bad enough, I'd take ANY med that helped (terrible ocd is worse than just about any side effects)Have you considered Zyprexa? I am seeing some outstanding results from it.
> > Have you tried Remeron?
> No, but maybe in the future.
>
> Some people HAVE had success with Remeron for OCD and it doesn't have many side effects (too high a dose 'can' make some very jumpy, nervous due to increased norepinephrine levels)
>
>
> > Have you ever tried Anafranil?
> Yes, but when I took 25mg it made my derealization and phobic anxiety MUCH worse. I intend to try it again, starting at 12.5mg with concomitant anxiolytic use.
>
> Okay
> Yes, I am soon to begin Anafranil. It is a good sign when a med initially makes you worse.
> > Could you increase the Nardil?
> I'm on the highest dose - 90mg. At one stage I got up to 120mg, but I'd rather keep it to 90mg.
>
> Okay
>
> > Have you tried adding fish oil?
> No nothing about this. Please educate me.
>
> Get some fish oil...take 3 grams total of EPA/DHA combined (you have to add up the combined EPA/DHA and take about 3 grams/day....you could start at 1 gram/day for a week or so, go to 2 grams/day for another week or so, then 3 grams/day...lets your body adjust to it....you need these Essential Fatty Acids)
> >
> > Is it worse for you lately due to increased stress?
>
> No, I think it's worse because Lithium has finally got up to the correct plasma level - every med that helps OCD seems to worsen it at first - a good sign.
>
> Okay
>
> > Are you taking any supplements (minerals, vitamins, etc.)?
> Never.
>
> Getting tested is BEST, so that you KNOW what your body does.does not need...but if you can't get tested.....(1) take a vitamin-B complex 100 (WITHOUT Folic Acid, as I have read that OCD'ers should avoid folic acid, so unless you know otherwise I'd avoid it for now..also read to avoid copper as well), stress depletes the vitamin-B's badly and you need those! (2) take about 3/grams of vitamin-C a day (1 1/2 morning, 1 1/2 dinner) (3) get some magnesium glycinate....there are other supplements to take/consider also....let me know if you want to hear more about supplements (better yet, go to a Border's book store, find a nutritional book for treating various problems, for example "Nutritional Prescriptions for Healing" by Dr. Balch, for example, start reading about nutrition and diet for helping ocd. Learn MEDITATION, it will calm the mind...yoga, tai-chi, exercise....MANY, MANY things to do to help yourself. AVOID Caffeine and too much SUGAR also!
>
> Take Care!
> Ace
>
> Take Care, God Bless my ocd friend! Learn all you can about the MANY ways to help yourself Ace. READ, READ, READ and LEARN...then JUST DO IT!!!There are MANY ways to skin a cat...and MANY ways to KICK OCD'S ASS!
>Good on you mate for trying to help - you are a very kind-hearted guy. I just had a laugh when you mentioned to learn heaps about oCD...2 years ago I was obsessed about learning about oCD therapy, I bought heaps of books, every article of the net, etc etc. That was mostly a good obsession. But I always get obsessed about things, even things I like (I gues it's probably OCPD). And boy you should see my Uncle - He is 65 and single - no kids. He loves me to death and gives me heaps of stuff. But boy is he obsessional - Whenever I tell him I'm doing a new subject at uni he literally buys me 40 books on the subject! He started to by me clothes - now I have no room! But he is also a pain in the ass sometimes - he is so rigid, perfectionist in his ways - he won't bend at all! i love him but and always will.
Clearly OCPD!Once again, Take Care dude, thanks so much and keep in touch!!
Ace (Andrew).
poster:ace
thread:219722
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030417/msgs/220537.html