Posted by Randal on August 22, 2002, at 13:51:35
In reply to Re: Mercola and Quackwatchers » Randal, posted by BarbaraCat on August 22, 2002, at 2:14:06
I did a quick google search on ( jenner milkmaids smallpox cowpox ). The first article that pops up says:
"Jenner was curious as to why milkmaids who came in contact with cows infected with a rash called cowpox didn't seem to get smallpox like everyone else. He noticed that the milkmaids got a similar rash, cowpox, on their hands after touching the cows during milking.
Jenner's careful observations led him to conclude that getting this milder form of infection must somehow protect the milkmaids. As an experiment, Jenner then deliberately gave people the mild cowpox infection to protect them against the more dangerous smallpox infection. "Now I don't know what was going through Jenner's mind at the time, but I assume he was aware of the fact that people infected with many diseases such a smallpox did not get the disease in the future. Given the fact that such epidemics would pass through every few years and kill a sizeable fraction of the population, it seems hard to believe that people back then would not have figured this one out.
So the fact that Jenner would guess that maybe a similar disease (Cowpox--was it called this back then?--if so people probably knew the disease was similar) would confer resistance to smallpox seems to me like a pretty reasonable deduction. I don't see a leap of faith here. In fact in retrospect it seems pretty "obvious" although one can often say that of great discoveries.
Now on to homeopathy. Hahnemann, who founded the field, made the hypothesis that if a substance caused the symptoms of a disease, that small amounts of that substance would treat the disease. This is refered to as "The Law of Similars". I know he did NOT use this, but as an example this would be like saying that because PCP causes symptoms similar to schizophrenia, minute doses would treat the disease.
Small doses in Homeopathy means immense dilutions, frequently to the extent that it is essentially impossible that there will be even one molecule of the compound. For example, what is sold as a 30C solution is diluted to the extent that a container of water 30 billion times the size of the earth would be required in order to have at least one molecule of the dissolved substance. So the homeopathic solution in many cases is nothing more than water.
The homeopathy crowd responds by saying that the water "remembers" the substance. When challenged with the physical implausibility of this argument they simply state that there are some things modern science doesn't understand yet. OK, so the hypothesis of a doctor 200 years ago means that modern physics is wrong, scientists don't know what they are talking about, etc. This seems like incredible rationalization to me.
And consider this: if water "remembers" what it has been in contact with, think of what else that water has been in contact with over its history. Additionally, what impurities are in that water in REAL quantities. We all are aware that the water we drink, even if it is incredibly pure, has at least minute quantities of hundreds of chemicals. Does each of these hundreds of chemicals have some unforeseen medicinal effect? Are these effects good or bad? It boggles the mind.
Barbara, to suggests that everyone who challenges such ideas is somehow ignorant of the spiritual side of things, or "will not look within" is a cop-out and insulting. Phil had said he would address this and I hope he does. There are many deeply religious and/or spiritual scientists (and others) who outright reject such things as homeopathy. I have certainly not been arguing "politics, religion and other sacred cows". I have not mentioned my philosophical, religious or spirtitual beliefs. I have simply been arguing about what is effective (and honest!) medical treatment.
Randal
> So, let's see. Jenner's supposition that milkmaids were able to resist smallpox by virtue of the fact that they handled infected cow's teats was based on the obvious? Where were his scientific studies? Is it possible that none of us knows all there is to know on any subject? We've ventured into the realm of arguing politics, religion and other sacred cows. However, I can't resist paraphrasing the Bard: 'There's more to Heaven and Earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy, Dr. Randal'. Cheers, Barbara
poster:Randal
thread:111261
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020821/msgs/117400.html