Posted by JohnX2 on March 11, 2002, at 19:12:45
In reply to Re: Calcium Channel Blockers, posted by jaby on March 11, 2002, at 11:03:41
Hi jaby,I'm really disheartened to hear about your on-going battle against anxiety and
depression. I know its really hard to keep our morale up for so long, especially
sharing something in common like painful tension headaches. Ugh..Anyways, I'll let you know what's really helped me with the tension headaches.
I think you may want to consider seeing a good neurologist who specializes in
headaches. Its possible a pdoc may work out too. Also do you feel the pain may be
TMJ related? Just a thought.I've been getting these bad tension headaches and some SSRI antidepressants like Zoloft would
make them much worse. Anyways to make a long story short, there has been good research into understanding
this issue and really the good 1st line anti-dotes that I have seen (which all have worked for me except 1)
are:1) Topamax (anti-convulsant)
2) Buspar (anti-anxiety)
3) Serzone (anti-depressant)
4) Klonopin (benzdiazepine,anxiolytic)(I don't want to get scientific but you mentioned the jargon)
In terms of the tension headeache/jaw tension, from what I understand
the SSRIs can increase serotonin in an area of the brain that reduces dopamine
release. This dopamine usually inhibits firing of neurons that create muscle
spasms.- So Serzone is an anti-depressant that blocks the offensive serotonin
receptor (thus increasing the dopamine). Serzone enhances sleep and
reduces anxiety and is an anti-depressant (via a bunch of mechanisms I
won't go into).- Buspar via a serotonergic mechanism inhibits the hyperactive firing of serotonin neurons.
When we are anxious, sometimes our serotonin neurons fire too quickly.
So Buspar makes us less anxious, and can relieve a tension headache.- Klonopin increased cunductance of a chemical called "Gaba". Gaba is an
inhibitor chemical that "dampens" the transmission of other chemicals.
In this case Klonopin will mitigate the hyperactive serotonin firing to
relieve the tension headache (now I believe Diazepam is similar)
and relieve anxiety.- Topamax also increases Gaba conductance in a manner not too unlike
Klonopin, but it is not habit forming. But it also mediates another chemical
called glutamate (which may cause a bit of start up brain fog).I'm currently taking 400 mg of Topamax with no side effects
and also 300 mg of Serzone. The Serzone helps my sleep tremendously.
I also take medicines for my bipolar (manic-depression).So, I guess those are some good medicines to talk about with your
doctor. I wouldn't be afraid to explore new alternatives like Topamax.
It works fast (its not like anti-depressants).The Serzone may not be a bad option to look into
if your physician feels that it fits your needs
in regards to your mental health concerns. Serzone
won't exacerbate your headache, it ought to help it.You need to express your concerns with a
trusted doctor carefully. I'm wondering why you feel
that your treatment has gone a bit "resistant" for so
long?I don't know if I can add much more. As far as the calcium
channel blockers go, I have no experience except research
interest (I'm always poking into random things). Please remember
I'm not a physician. These are just my experiences and
ramblings so to speak. ;).Please take care.
John
> Hey John,
> I've read a lot of good posts from you. I have problems with GAD/depression. I have used most of the more conventional meds, but haven't had a doctor that has been willing to let me try out different benzos, which I would like to do with caution.
>
> Anyhow, I had read from a post here (maybe not the best source) I think that lamictal effects the calcium channels. If it does indeed have an effect on the NMDA receptors, I think that would warrant consideration of calcium regulation since it seems to be one of the more important ions involved at this site.
>
> I currently take 3.75 mg diazepam and 3200 mg neurontin. I am also trying to play with a start up/washout deal with lamictal. I was totally cured for 2 days when I first took it, had that gradually diminish, and then just experienced side effects. Yesterday was my first day of the re-trial and it hasn't been like before.
>
> I honestly think that I just have an anxiety disorder, which hasn't been treated correctly. Again, I woul dlike to try different benzos since they seem to be most effective. Since I have not been adequatelty treated and have had to deal with this for 5 years now, I think it has been allowed to tranform into other things.
>
> So how do you like topomax? It's one I would like to try, but am turned off by it's dumbing profile. I have troubles with my neurontin and recall already.
>
> I think it may have been you that was thinking of trying a CCB. In what little research there has been, it seems that nimodipine(sp?) has shown the most promise. It is very expensive however.
>
> I would be curious to hear if you have tried a CCB as well as what meds have done what best for you.
>
> Thanks.
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > I have chronic tension headaches (been through many treatments).
> > Also bad bruxism (teeth grinding). This is exacerbated by
> > SSRIs like Zoloft.
> >
> > Can I pick your brain and swap stories?
> >
> > I found Topamax, Klonopin, and Serzone effective
> > cures.
> >
> > I also take Lamictal for Bipolar II disorder.
> >
> > But Lamictal doesn't help the headache, in fact
> > if I raise the dose too much, things get worse.
> > Neurontin doesn't help much either.
> >
> > Are you just taking the meds for tension headache?
> >
> > I've read that CCB may be healpful in some cases
> > to help headaches. what medicines were you thinking?
> >
> > Can you give us some insight on Lamictal's calcium
> > ion channel mode of action (any research ptrs would
> > be interesting)? I haven't really heard much about that
> > one.
> >
> > Thanks a lot!
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> > > Has anyone had any luck with CCB's? I have had my best response to neurontin and lamicatal which have significant effects on the calcium ion channels. So this seems like it might make sense and overlap with the tension headches I experience. I would appreciate all input (whether it makes sense, experiences, etc.). Thanks.
poster:JohnX2
thread:97448
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020307/msgs/97513.html