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Re: opioid scripts; buprenorphine pharmacokinetics cisco

Posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 23:38:34

In reply to Re: opioid scripts; buprenorphine pharmacokinetics, posted by cisco on December 15, 2001, at 21:07:44

> Yes, absolutely, the worldwide drug prohibition is the cause of worldwide drug problems.

And a lot of it is due to the U.S. putting political and economic pressure on other countries to pass antidrug laws similar to its own. Still, there are places where things are better.

> Strict distribution of Pharmaceutically pure drugs, sold at a sensible price, works.

I would imagine the pharmaceutical companies would like being able to sell whatever they wanted, too. Except their claim to legitimacy rests on drawing a line between their "good" drugs (such as SSRIs) and "bad" illegal drugs. They have to go along with things like the Controlled Substances Act (which really is bad for them) while doing their best to make drugs that won't be Scheduled. That means that drug companies aren't looking for newer opioids with fewer side effects or that don't cause tolerance, because that's not where the money is. And they're definitely not interested in demonstrating the antidepressant effects of opioids.

> And works well: As Drug price's go down, The black market goes away. Criminal empires lose major funding. jails empty. Police catch criminals. Drug Corruption
> goes away, etc, etc. The whole house of cards crumbles. This makes too much sense. It's too easy.

But there are huge industries built around the War on Some Drugs. The prison industry (which is now being "privatized" in many places), the law enforcement industry, a number of government agencies. The WoSD creates jobs, and many people have built their careers on it.

> I'm sorry. I go on and on and on. It is such an outrage!

I understand. You are right to be outraged.

> I took hydrocodone for a couple years, pretty much everyday. Then Oxycontin became available, and I began using that. It was cheap and strong. And pure: No acetaminophen to poison the body.

Yes, don't you love how drugs are supposedly made "safer" (presumably less "abuse potential") by adding poison to them?

> After the DEA figured out it was being diverted from Mexico, they put a stop to it. So now I'm taking Hydrocodone again. The Norco is 10/325, so the paracetamol content is low.

I've heard of the 10/325s -- I suggested to my mother (who has osteoporosis) that she ask for them: it's not like the APAP is doing anything for her.

> Since I self-medicate, I work the edges of the system. I get the Hydro from willing OP's after a short Dr. consult. Its filled by their own pharmacy, and dropped off by UPS.

I wish people didn't have to go through all this. Of course, poor people don't have the option; they're stuck trying to score heroin on the street.

> Yes, I am dependent. Severe short coming of opioids. Tolerance is annoying. And when you run out, by choice or not, withdrawals are bad.

As you've seen, bupe is much better that way: there are withdrawal symptoms, but you don't get sick like you do with full agonists.

> I have gone through withdrawals 5 or 6 times. But is just no good. After WD's comes that horrible phase of severe depression, dysphoria and general malaise. Getting out of bed to do anything, say wash the dishes, feels like you are being asked to run the Boston Marathon!

That's one of the symptoms of my depression -- I had this problem before I ever took opioids.

> I was surprised how well they worked. Now, I usually take 0.4mg (two 0.2mg).

I wish I knew how to figure out the equivalent to my dose (0.3 mg), because I'm seriously thinking that I should try this. It takes an hour for it to work for me too (which is a pain: I have to get up early in the AM and take it so that I'll be okay when I need to be), but it sounds like it lasts longer for you.

> I read that when Bup is given IV to Heroin addicts, they think it's Heroin.

I'm *very* skeptical. It might feel like a low dose of heroin (relative to their tolerance) to them, but AFAIK it doesn't cause a rush (even IV). It also supposedly takes a while for the effect to kick in even when given IV.

> I also read that some people crush up the Sublingual tabs, and snort them!

Well, that's probably similar to how I take it, although I bet it doesn't work as well to snort the powder. I "snort" the injectable solution. I have to do it lying down and hold my head back (hyperextending my neck) in order for it to be absorbed adequately (this also prevents it from going down my throat).

> I have taken Prozac, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Celexa, Zoloft, Paxil, and a few others. After a few days of side effects, I then feel nothing. Weeks and Months of no real effect. However, when I take an Opioid, I feel better within an hour!

Ever tried MAOIs?

> What a joke! Oh, but Opioids are addictive. Damn right. Anything that makes you feel good, you will continue doing. Has anyone ever stolen Effexor from a Pharmacy?

If it helps, I will keep using it (I'm just at 75 mg now). And if it made me functional and I couldn't afford it -- I don't know, I might steal in order to pay for it. Being able to live, to function, to do all the other things that "normal" people do -- that's what I want.





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