Posted by geno on November 23, 2001, at 20:18:12
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia » 3 Beer Effect, posted by nightlight on November 22, 2001, at 12:25:44
> 3-Beer~
>
> You are young, inexperienced, and looking for the same answers most of us here on the board, & in life, generally seek.
> How do I succeed in 'business' (or school) without really trying? (Or trying so hard that it eradicates the possibility of pursuing lust, laughter, love, primal validation?) How do I find the social ease with which to woo the opposite sex, feed my my emotional and sexual appetite without suffering personal (and, perhaps, public)humiliation? Both pursuits require dedication, hard work, vigilance, decisiveness & courage.
> Choices must be made. Is making it with the chicks so important that you would sacrifice your GPA, (which wasn't bad), but, you could probably excell in school if you didn't burn your body out on the weekends.
>
>
> > I haven't drank in a long time but I am using anti-anxiety, anti-depression medications which have been very discouraging. I am a college student & would take 20 mg Ritalin (methylphenidate) twice per day on Monday through Thursday (as prescribed by GP), and then get drunk (binge drink) Thursday, Friday, & Saturday, & then recover from my hangover & take Ritalin to study on Sunday. On this regimen I managed to get about a 3.0 GPA every semester at a very academically demanding university- the University of Texas at Austin.
>
> I made decent grades in school, at times. In elementary, I was considered gifted, made straight A's, skipped a grade. I was 'genetically' predisposed to absorbing information, my parents were smart, my IQ very high, and school was easy for a while.
> But,then came puberty, high school, the need for self-imposed stucture, study skills and consistency. And, college, good God, all my 'fine capabilities' had, by then, vanished in the wind.I had felt 'out-of-control' since early teens. School was suddenly so hard, so demanding. Not natural, easy.
> So, I looked to socializing for stimulation. And, I dated a lot. But, I was so uncomfortable, until I began to experiment w/alcohol and drugs. Then, I REALLY made progress. With a quaalude & a beer, I could conquer any guy. I spent 7 years on a hedonistic ride through the mid-70's. Did I have fun, take many stupid risks, worry my parents sick, flunk out of college and make poor decisions that would affect me for the rest of my life? Did I waste a lot of precious time because I didn't know I needed psychiatric help? A resounding yes to all of the above.
>
> > I was sick of people telling me that I get drunk too much at every party so I started taking Zoloft to help decrease the need to drink. It turned out that Zoloft counteracted the Ritalin & then made me "dumb as a brick" & I barely passes through finals even though I previously had A's & B's in all my classes. The next semester I had to pursue a medical withdrawl through the college dean because of the debilitating effects of these anti-depressants. I would never recommend any anti-depressants to college students, especially those who drink once in awhile on the weekends, unless they go to a ridiculously easy college like Texas A & M University.
>
> If you were taking ritalin, is it because you had been diagnosed with ADHD? Had you gone thru any sort of therapy to help you with the challenges that go along with that diagnosis?
> I have recently been diagnosed ADD (that's only part of the mix) and I know that the insecurity and anxiety I felt as an adolescent was what made me seek substances to mitigate my dis-ease with normal social intergration. I felt more normal when self-medicated, but I came to believe that I over-indulged because I was abnormal, spineless, lazy and, had somehow, become a dullard.
>
>
> > I was referred to a psychiatrist at this point who took away the Ritalin because of my history of binge drinking. He then put me on Remeron (Mirtzapine) -no anti-depressant effect at 45 mg, and I did not drink alcohol anymore at this point, but the Remeron just made me so tired (slept 17 hours per night) I could not get out of bed to go to class in the morning), then Effexor XR (which I had to stop on my own accord because I had rapid heartbeat, palpitations, insomnia, & chest pain- I even had to fly home to my parents house because i thought I was going to have a heart attack (& i'm only 23!)
>
> At ur age, if I got 3 hrs. sleep a nite, I knew I could probably make it thru the next day, be it work (non-demanding) or school (absorbing nothing).Binge drinking or doping on the weekends and then trying to transition back into the 'real world' is an evasive, self-deluding road to nowhere. Time passes. The body becomes more vulnerable to chemical damage. You find yourself at 28 using the same old routine to simply 'slide by' & trying not attract to much attention for the un-skilled, un-happy, un-prepared individual that you have meandered into becoming.
>
> > Now I am taking Celexa which even thought I have just started on it at half the starting dose for a week (10 mg) it seems to not make me nervous or cause insomnia like all the SSRIs I have tried. I read that Celexa may be the best SSRI for anxious patients b.c it doesn't affect the adrenergic glands or dopamine like Zoloft does (slightly) & has no norepinephrine effect (norepinephine= nervousness) & also has a slight sedating effect.
>
> You are obviously suffering through the trauma of being properly diagnosed and finding a medication(s) that will give you a strong chemical foundation and help you accomplish your goals. Finding the right combo can be a heart-rending, mind-breaking bitch, but, God, if you can do that, you will have the such a gift! And, if you do have some disorder, straighten it out NOW.You will be one of the blessed few who 'get it' when they are still young.
>
> > The Celexa is augmented by Klonopin(Clonazepam) for social anxiety/phobia 1 mg per day split into 2 doses but this doesn't seem to do a whole lot for me (cross tolerance from previous alcohol abuse?).
>
> I don't think the previous alcohol abuse is the problem, but, I'm no professional. Klonopin is a good drug, evens you out, mitigates social panic, but, it's subtle.
>
> > If this Klonopin/Celexa combo doesn't work I am then rapidly running out of options (I also tried Paxil long ago- nausea & nervousness). Klonopin is supposed to be the best social phobia medicine-
>
> It may not be a panacea, whatever drug combo you arrive at, and it may take a little time, but I think it is great you are searching for dependable pharmaceuticals that will be medically monitored.
>
>
> the only thing better is Nardil-the cheese effect MAO inhibitor drug (I could eliminate cheese/tyramine from my diet but how severe are the other side effects?) Or I could get the psychiatrist to increase the klonopin dose, but nowadays doctors seem to think benzodiazepines are the devil even though they are much safer than vodka! Plus Benzos, unlike alcohol, cause no long term damage to kidneys or other organs, hence there is no reason not to take them if needed, even for the rest of your life.
>
> Yeah, but, if u ever want off of them (benzos), it can be THE biggest, longest bitch of a withdrawal you can imagine. But, it depends on your diagnosis, your needs, what is determined to be be your baseline 'functional' chemical coktail.
> >
>
> > The only reason i drank on the weekends was to release my inhibitions so i can socialize with girls/women. So I am trying to find a 'disinhibitor' that approximates the disinhibiting, relaxing, wonderful feeling you get after drinking three beers, but one that works 24 hours a day (like antidepressants do) instead of only a few hours.
> >
> > I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack. Maybe i should have 1 beer at lunch & 1 beer at dinner & stop taking these worthless antidepressants.
> >
> > The only other meds I can think of that have these 3 beers properties are the following, although I have no experiences with them- perhaps one of you would be likely to elaborate on you own personal experiences.
> >
> > 1. Meprobamate (Miltown)
> > 2. Phenobarbital
> > 3. Nardil
> > 4. Parnate
> > 5. Chloral Hydrate (actually metabolizes to ethanol in the system, the only true alcohol in a pill- perhaps this is the answer to my social phobia?)
> >
> > 6.Neurontin- Someone said something about this once, what is this medication & what does it do?
> >
> >
> > It is a shame that with a hundred years of pharmaceutical research, the medicines for social anxiety pale in comparison to the 3000 year old drug alcohol, & the one medicine that may have equaled alcohol in effaciousness for anxiety/disinhibition (GHB) was banned immediately. Could you imagine if alcohol had been invented a few years ago instead of thousands of years ago- IT WOULD BE BANNED AND PLACED INTO THE SCHEDULE I NARCOTICS CATEGORY INSTANTLY- it is probably, next to Heroin, Opium, Morphine & its stronger derivatives, & LSD, the strongest drug out there.
> >
> > Cocaine, Amphetamines, & Marijuana (All Schedule II drugs) result in a much lower level of intoxication than alcohol. You can excel in your studies & work productivity by using Cocaine, Ritalin, or even better the Amphetamines (especially Dexedrine). Marijuana just makes you a worthless member of society who sits on the couch all day & turns you into a burn out, but doesn't increase people's tendency to be violent, it just increases their tendency to become a waste of space.
>
>
> If you are looking for chemical social enhancer, there are plenty of them, all with their inherent risks.
> But, in the long run, life experience, confidence from personal accomplishment (however large/small), and the right and proper meds, are what give us
> the edge in being more at ease with ourselves, and then others. It's not a quick trick.
>
> The answers to our desires are not thrown into our laps. We have to seek, struggle, make mistakes. If you could nurse a coupla drinks through an evening and get by w/that, it wd. be no big deal. But, binge drinking is a whole different story (I've done it) and it can trigger deadly depressions in it's aftermath.
>
> Keep looking, I do hope the Celexa kicks in, like a continuous dose of dutch courage, and then your obsession for the perfect 'social cocktail' can be set aside, while you concentrate on what you want out of this life.
>
> Please excuse the lecture 3-B, but, I relate and I wish you well.
> Do not seek the path of least resistance. It doesn't lead to anyplace interesting.
>
> nightlight
To 3 beers,Ya i totallly agreee with you. YOur 3 beers are like my 2caps of ghb. NOTHING< no med can compare to the anti anxiety, socialability, antideprssive effects with in 20 minutes NOTHING.
geno
poster:geno
thread:84423
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011123/msgs/85015.html