Posted by dj on July 2, 2000, at 14:12:29
In reply to Re: yes projection..., posted by Rockets on July 2, 2000, at 11:59:11
> Nope again. But you are turning nasty and projecting your own desire for how you want this to appear. I simply stated the obvious.
>
> I do apologize though for that last comment. It was unwarranted. I don't suspect you could ever bring yourself to do the same.. could you? >Anyways, have a happy fourth.
Rockets,If I thought I was being nasty and ill-informed I could and would aplogize. I was particularly annoyed by your previous response, which I did consider nasty, and my response was informed by that and may have had a bit of an edge to it. However, I blunted the edge more than I would have and did in the past.I believe that my response(s) were appropriate to your comment(s), which I believe were niggling and did not speak to the obvious but did address a stereotypical (and hopefully well meaning) and not helpful viewpoint to the specific issue addressed, so I don't believe an apology is due.
And I also believe that you don't undertand projection which is well explained in the following quote from the book: "Undoing Depression" (http://www.undoingdepression.com):
"Two additional defense mechanisms...that contribute to problems in communication are projection and projective identification. Projection means that I take my feelings, disconnect them from my conscious awareness, and attribute them to you. "You really want to fight, don't you?" People who are very thin-skinned overuse projection. They take their own bad feelings about themselves and project them onto others, seeing themselves as victims of discrimination and collecting grievances everywhere. Projective identfication...occurs, when, as a result of your projection, I really do want to fight. I catch the feeling you attribute to me. The projector and the recipient can get bound together in horribly complex webs of feeling from which there seems to be no escape.
Like all defences, projection and projective identification are attempts to resolve a conflict between our needs, our fears (or our conscience), the expectations of others, and/or the strictures of reality. I need love and intimacy but I can fear it as well. If I let someone get close, I can be hurt. I can take that fear and project it, making anyone who comes close to me seem to be nosy, controlling, officious. Projection and projective identification can distort reality to a destructive, uncomfortable degree. And because they are so much a part of how we communicate in relationships, and because in human interactions things happen so fast that we can easily get confused, these defenses are less subject to reflective analysis than denial, isolation, or repression.
...When I assume I understand you without sufficient basis in reality, the cause can be either projection or projective identification. I think I can read your mind. I become convinced that I know what you really mean, despite all your attempts at claification. If I keep accusing you of really being angry at me, eventually you really will get angry at me. That's projective identification."
When I assume that you understand me, it's also a process of projection. When I become hot and bothered because I feel convinced I've made my wishes clear and you just stubbornly refuse to understand, I'm not communicating anything except my stubborness. These irrational sensations of knowing with perfect clarity exactly what the other person is thinking are sure indications of projection. They're fueled by emotions, not logic.
What we have to do, naturally, is check our assumptions."
And I could be wrong, as I am over tired and my concentration on this whole issue is somewhat distracted, at this moment. So if I've misinterpreted or misconstrued or lost track of the core issues in any of the above exchange(s) I apologize for that. However, I do believe my tone was balanced and generally respectful, if a bit direct and challenging to you, overall.
Regardless, of all of the above I do wish you and all of my Southern neighbours a happy Independence Day. Ours was yesterday...and on a metaphysical level it's everyday.
Sante! (french for health)
dj - a proud though not mindless Canadian
poster:dj
thread:38824
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000630/msgs/39050.html