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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 61 to 85 of 85. Go back in thread:
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 3, 2013, at 4:49:45
In reply to Most relaxing classical..., posted by ed_uk2010 on November 29, 2013, at 11:57:35
D. Scarlatti K27, played on piano. This is sublime and so unique for the 1750s. Like nothing else.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 3, 2013, at 6:19:12
In reply to D. Scarlatti. Ahead of his time., posted by ed_uk2010 on December 3, 2013, at 4:49:45
Scott Ross on harpsichord, a very expressive performance, not too fast or showy. I like the hand-crossing. Scott sadly died of AIDS in 1989 (aged only 38), so this must be quite an old recording.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKrhlML66fM
Posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 12:30:07
In reply to Re: cuz i can't stop... » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 3, 2013, at 4:26:22
The hip hop song I put up has the immortal line 'Look how great we have become'. Bombs by Faithless. Our countries and our leaders: Did Howard really say he would be America's deputy sherrif in Asia? And Tony Blair and Rupert Murdoch, that other great Australian, such great friends.
The one I liked most wasAnd Bononcini's version was based on the 'same' piece by Francesco Cavalli.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 3, 2013, at 13:28:44
In reply to Re: cuz i can't stop..., posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 12:30:07
>The one I liked most was....Cavalli (the original!)
You are a true traditionalist Sigi (does that even make sense?)
The Cavalli is in a much older style.
Posted by johnLA on December 3, 2013, at 19:45:34
In reply to Re: cuz i can't stop... » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 3, 2013, at 13:28:44
hi ed-
i'm not sure if i missed it, but do you have a music background?
your knowledge (and taste) in music is awesome.
if i get back to teaching i might be calling on you for recommendations!
thanks for all the good links.
john
Posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 21:12:46
In reply to for ed_uk2010, posted by johnLA on December 3, 2013, at 19:45:34
Eddy has a taste for the baroque, doesn't he?
I wanted to find Reiner Goldberg singing Florestan's Aria from Fidelio, with the Budapest some people or other but it was not on youtube. The first few times I was so breathless listening to it, quite overcome. Something to do with his phrasing, though that might not be the right term, with his pace.
Posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 21:23:03
In reply to Re: for ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 21:12:46
I'm too stupid for fugues. I listen to the Well Tempered Clavier often enough but.......
Counterpoint is fine, but again there is the stupidness factor.
I quite like the idea of getting cancer and giving up on the world and living on morphine, green tea, raw fish and fugues. Very traditional, with a nod to Japan.
Any ideas?
Posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 21:24:04
In reply to Re: for ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 21:23:03
Was that Scarlatti all counterpoint?
I should listen to it again.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 4, 2013, at 3:48:19
In reply to for ed_uk2010, posted by johnLA on December 3, 2013, at 19:45:34
You're welcome, and thank you. I don't have a background in music though. I've not played for well over 10 years either. Just a casual listener!
> hi ed-
>
> i'm not sure if i missed it, but do you have a music background?
>
> your knowledge (and taste) in music is awesome.
>
> if i get back to teaching i might be calling on you for recommendations!
>
> thanks for all the good links.
>
> john
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 4, 2013, at 4:15:34
In reply to Re: for ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 21:24:04
> Was that Scarlatti all counterpoint?
>
> I should listen to it again.No, Scarlatti is rarely contrapunctal.
JS. Bach was the master of counterpoint. Sometimes he did it to absolute perfection, other times it seemed more like a demonstration of what is humanly possible, and the beauty was lost (in my opinion). For example, in Bach's 'The Art of Fugue', the earlier simpler fugues are so much more beautiful to me than the later more technically complicated variations (rather like a mathematical exercises). Others will no doubt disagree.
Here is the very first Art of Fugue (Contrapunctus 1). I recommend listening to it a few times to appreciate the subtleties. Here, fugal perfection is achieved. You can hear the initial theme repeated by the various 'voices' during the piece.
Watch it played (on piano).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F39pnJWQ6Hw
With the sheet music, on harpsichord. I love to see the music. I can read it but not play it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXkN0TKZotA
If the fugues proved a little too heavy. How about this delicious little piece from Francois Couperin's Les Barricades Mysterieuses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj33HliB5v0
Some prefer it on piano, which is easy to find on YouTube :)
Or perhaps some Jean-Phillipe Rameau? Very different French style to Couperin. This is quite an electric performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrj9qtyxlWg
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 4, 2013, at 6:07:19
In reply to Re: for ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on December 3, 2013, at 21:24:04
Vivaldi was not a greater write of fugue. He used very little formal counterpoint in his music, and apparently found fugue-writing difficult. To be quite frank, Vivaldi's music various from sublime to trite and banal. He often had to write concertos with exceptional speed for small concerts, and it shows. On the other hand, he best music is just fantastic. Perhaps surprisingly, some of the fugal-style music he did write was a great success. Here are a few examples. Bear in mind, Vivald's fugues are not always strict fugues like Bach's. He preferred instead to write whatever sounded right, be it a proper fugue or not. His fugues are always short. It think it's generally recognised that he did not find them easy to write.
Vivaldi - Sonata a quattro, Al Santo Sepolcro. I've only posted a link to the fugue, not the calm sleepy introduction (which is great in its own way, like night music). This version of the fugue is very fast. There are many slower versions available online if you prefer, some almost to the point of being turgid (wrong word, but never mind). Still, I find this version somewhat rivitalising even though it is a bit rushed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9djDrfOUN8Vivaldi - Kyrie Eleison (Lord, have mercy).
This is a beautiful choral piece in general. The sequence of chords at the beginning was a favourite of Vivaldi, he used it in several different pieces, including other parts of the mass. Anyway, the fugue (or at least the counterpoint) starts at 7:00 minutes, if you'd like to skip to it using the bar at the bottom. I do recommend listening to the whole piece though. The fugal finale sounds a bit pointless without the build up.
Performed here by the excellent King's Consort.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-2e8VUgrEw
Here is another great example of Vivaldian counterpoint, the Cruxifixus, from Credo RV591. The fugue starts at 3:40 mins and is undoubtedly the most touching part of the piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zPkhIizEvM
Most of the other Italian Baroque composers wrote more contrapunctal work than Vivaldi (although not to the extent of the Germans)... but their fugues were always more informal than Bach.
You may enjoy this Albinoni, some of his earliest work, from Opus 1. The trio sonatas of Opus 1 are a mixture of energising fugal allegros and generally non/less fugal largos.
This is Sonata no 3. I think my favourite bit is at 4:55 mins, it's just so full of joy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp1YZc26mng
Hope you enjoy - and don't feel bombarded!
Posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 12:50:07
In reply to Fugues from unexpected sources » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 4, 2013, at 6:07:19
Thanks Eddy, I will listen with interest. I had the radio on yesterday and heard something, the patchwork nature of which said to me 'ah, counterpoint!'. Something by Albinoni.
Posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 16:50:09
In reply to Fugues from unexpected sources » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 4, 2013, at 6:07:19
I had a thing about the B minor mass for a few years about 20 years ago. I have Klemperer conducting it and it is a big heavy massively articulated rather slow performance which I love.
One year around Easter I was listening to the St Mathew Passion a little before dawn and Mache Dich Mein Herze Rein had this endless quality in the silence of the morning.
Posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 19:56:56
In reply to Fugues from unexpected sources » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 4, 2013, at 6:07:19
In part of me I feel disdain and more for Christian theology. At the same time I have always loved the psychology of the Mass. Christianity is such a big subject, so many reasons to love it, so many to hate it. So I like church music. I got hold of many Masses from the classical, fewer from the baroque, although Palestrina and Victoria, yes.
Posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:10:45
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources, posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 16:50:09
Christianity is such a big subject. So much to either love or hate. But I have always loved the Mass, the psychology of it.
I prefer not to understand the words. Sung German is (to me) so unexpectedly beautiful. This carries me away......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM16AYlGP7g
Posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:13:54
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources, posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:10:45
Yet the words to this are in English 'His blood be on us and on our children'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM16AYlGP7g
It truly is a terrible passage.
Posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:14:59
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources, posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:13:54
Did I do that right?
Posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2013, at 20:15:44
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources, posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:13:54
Mass is considered Catholic or High Episcapalian (sp?) here. Buy other denominations of Christianity call it a service. PJ
Posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:15:45
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources, posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:14:59
Why won't it work?
Posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:16:54
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources, posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:15:45
The terrible passage?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 6, 2013, at 15:08:29
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources, posted by sigismund on December 4, 2013, at 20:16:54
> The terrible passage?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPzJnGjWq5UI'm enjoying your Bach links Sigi. What's not working?
Albinoni wrote a lot of pretty fugul style for strings. The pieces were generally in 5 parts called 'concerti a cinque'. The five parts were 1st violin, 2nd violin, 1st viola, 2nd viola and cello.
For example, a couple of brief cheerful movements:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-85cC2v5DXI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75V0tieaT1g
A more serious minor key fugue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7QMATFjdSw
Some of Albinoni's later work was less contrapunctal but deliciously attractive and melodic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTutKOv9PBY
Oh, and please bear in mind, the most popular piece 'by' Albinoni, 'The Adagio for Strings' is NOT by Albinoni. It was written in the 1930s by an Italian musician who liked Albinoni, but it's not really in Albinoni's style.
Posted by sigismund on December 6, 2013, at 16:03:30
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 6, 2013, at 15:08:29
Paul Celan wrote Death Fugue, which I very much like. But I don't think you can do fugues with writing can you? Not real ones? There is some of the German left, which is OK.
Black milk of daybreak we drink it at evening
we drink it at midday and morning we drink it at night
we drink and we drink
we shovel a grave in the air there you won't lie too cramped
A man lives in the house he plays with his vipers he writes
he writes when it grows dark to Deutschland your golden hair Marguerite
he writes it and steps out of doors and the stars are all sparkling
he whistles his hounds to come close
he whistles his Jews into rows has them shovel a grave in the ground
he orders us strike up and play for the dance
Black milk of daybreak we drink you at night
we drink you at morning and midday we drink you at evening
we drink and we drink
A man lives in the house he plays with his vipers he writes
he writes when it grows dark to Deutschland your golden hair Margeurite
your ashen hair Shulamith we shovel a grave in the air there you won't lie too cramped
He shouts jab this earth deeper you lot there you others sing up and play
he grabs for the rod in his belt he swings it his eyes are blue
jab your spades deeper you lot there you others play on for the dancingBlack milk of daybreak we drink you at night
we drink you at midday and morning we drink you at evening
we drink and we drink
a man lives in the house your goldenes Haar Margeurite
your aschenes Haar Shulamith he plays with his vipers
He shouts play death more sweetly Death is a master from Deutschland
he shouts scrape your strings darker you'll rise then in smoke to the sky
you'll have a grave then in the clouds there you won't lie too cramped
Black milk of daybreak we drink you at night
we drink you at midday Death is a master aus Deutschland
we drink you at evening and morning we drink and we drink
this Death is ein Meister aus Deutschland his eye it is blue
he shoots you with shot made of lead shoots you level and true
a man lives in the house your goldenes Haar Margarete
he looses his hounds on us grants us a grave in the air
he plays with his vipers and daydreams
der Tod is ein Meister aus Deutschland
dein goldenes Haar Margarete
dein aschenes Haar Shulamith
Posted by sigismund on December 6, 2013, at 17:00:11
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 6, 2013, at 15:08:29
Counterpoint, isn't it lovely? It makes me feel like I am home or something. A heavenly home.
Posted by sigismund on December 6, 2013, at 17:25:46
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 6, 2013, at 15:08:29
A (double?) oboe concerto! Which I imagine you know well.
They were all absolutely beautiful, just what I like.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 8, 2013, at 10:56:21
In reply to Re: Fugues from unexpected sources » ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on December 6, 2013, at 17:25:46
> A (double?) oboe concerto! Which I imagine you know well.
>
> They were all absolutely beautiful, just what I like.Oh yes, I've loved those pieces since I bought the CD about 10 years ago. Glad you enjoyed them. Albinoni wrote quite a few double oboe concertos. The oboe parts are not too difficult, suggesting they were written for a pair who were not very advanced technically! Perhaps some aristocrats? The orchestral violin parts are more difficult, as are his violin concertos (not difficult for the sake of being difficult though, which some composers are guilty of). I like this (non-fugal) 'concerto for strings'. It's very motivating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S967Ggv-Dg
The Death Fugue is very dark. I don't suppose you can have counterpoint in writing as such, only repetition, which is an element of counterpoint. Perhaps repetition with small changes counts as written counterpoint. I really have no idea what I'm talking about.
This is the end of the thread.
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