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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by baseball55 on December 17, 2012, at 19:19:31
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by herpills on December 17, 2012, at 18:50:21
Who says Adam Lanza was mentally ill and sought help but didn't get it? There's no evidence for this whatsoever. Most of the cases of this have no history of seeking help for mental illness and not getting it. Name one case where this was shown.
Posted by baseball55 on December 17, 2012, at 19:29:46
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by herpills on December 17, 2012, at 18:50:21
while I'm on the topic, I have been hospitalized several times and have never been interviewed by a social worker (though I have great respect for social workers and many are better trained at therapy and assessment than many psychiatrists and psychologists). I have only been interviewed by psychiatrists, psychologists and psychiatric nurse practitioners.
I think this article is b**l. If Lanza hadn't had assault weapons, he wouldn't have killed 27 people. He might have fantisized killing 27 people, but he wouldn't have been able to do it. Nor would he have been able to shoot his way into a school with locked doors and a security system.
Most people intent on violence never seek any sort of help. They nurse their fantasies in secret. People who seek help are generally non-violent or have fantasies of violence only against themselves (suicidal ideation).
Posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2012, at 20:45:22
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by baseball55 on December 17, 2012, at 19:29:46
Family was wealthy Mom an avid gun collector. Adam was said to have Asperger's Syndrome. Phillipa
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 17, 2012, at 20:52:04
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by herpills on December 17, 2012, at 18:50:21
Why isn't it both a gun and mental health care issue?
It's both, and complicated.
The writer is interesting in that he states that psychiatry programs curtail their programs' training in therapy, which goes along with the quick med check model, and he also seems to say that psychiatrists are always better suited than social workers to treat patients. In the medication realm that is of course the truth, but we know its more complicated than that. I agree with a lot of what is stated, but really disagree with a lot of it. And....this is from Fox News after all, which leans conservative (which tends to be pro gun)
I think these shooters tend to have contact with mental health professionals, but they're not the ones seeking it out.
Posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 10:40:55
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by baseball55 on December 17, 2012, at 19:29:46
I guess I don't understand why it's OK for the anti gun rights people to use this horrible tragedy as a means to further their political agenda, but it's not OK to talk about mental health?
I am sincerely happy that you received the proper treatment that anyone with a serious mental illness deserves. Unfortunately my own hospitalizations have not been the glowing experience that you are reporting.
The last time I was hospitalized, which was for 10 days, I got to talk to a psychiatrist for maybe a total of 20 minutes the whole time I was there. That's right, 20 MINUTES during a 10 DAY inpatient psychiatric ward. I've heard of psychiatric nurse practitioners...I have yet to meet one in real life. I mostly get social workers and low level nurses. I once had a social worker tell me when I was in the hospital, that I should drop my professional career and work in something like retail because it would be less stressful. To this day I think its one of the most insulting things anyway has said to me.
I'll also never forget when I another social worker said "now that you've had multiple hospitalizations, more services are available to you..."
Why in the heck were those services not available before I got so sick?
The truth is that there are many things in that article that are 100% true because they happened to me or happened to people I know. When I read the comment about how healthcare workers are the gate keepers for the insurance companies it made me cringe because I know exactly what he is talking about. You would be AMAZED at how different you are treated as soon as the words "I don't have insurance" come out of your mouth. herpills
Posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 10:41:50
In reply to Re: yes. :.((((((((((((( » baseball55, posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2012, at 20:45:22
But the APA has decided that Aspergers isn't a disorder, so did he ever have it?
Posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 10:52:33
In reply to Re: yes. :.((((((((((((( » herpills, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 17, 2012, at 20:52:04
I agree with you, it IS about BOTH guns and mental healthcare. It just seems like all we're hearing about is the gun part.
Whenever I hear about a shooting, I never think about the gun issue first. My first thought is, what would make that human think it is OK to hurt/kill another human? What is going on in their head? What led them to feel this way?
It takes human intention to use a gun in the manner it was used at Sandy Hook. The trigger didn't pull itself.
I also don't like how the media is making it sound like these mass shooting are common. The truth is that they are very, very rare.
Thinking that getting rid of guns will end these types of incidents, is like saying that getting rid of marijuana, cocaine, and poppy plants will stop people from using drugs. herpills
Posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 12:05:02
In reply to Re: yes. :.((((((((((((( » baseball55, posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 10:40:55
> I guess I don't understand why it's OK for the anti gun rights people to use this horrible tragedy as a means to further their political agenda, but it's not OK to talk about mental health?
Everyone is talking about it. The two concerns (mental illness and gun control) are not mutually exclusive. Given the personal experiences you describe, it is obvious that the mental health system isn't working nearly as well as it should be.
> The truth is that there are many things in that article that are 100% true
That may be, but it doesn't follow from logic that 100% of the things in that article are true, or that the conclusions drawn are valid. The article is an opinion editorial, and not an objective inquiry of any sort. The author spends an awful lot of time and energy suggesting that gun control would cost too much time and energy. How many children did it cost in order to save time and energy?
"Focusing on gun control does more than squander the time and effort of our public officials and state resources and town police forces, it distracts us dangerously from the real work that must be done."
It doesn't say much about the author that he is distracted by the challenge of looking at more than one variable at a time. I seem to have no problem with it. It says even less about him if he is intimating that the populace is so challenged while he is not. How pretentious.
I wonder how much higher this author would advocate the debt ceiling be raised in order to cover the costs of the things that he suggests must be done. Perhaps cutting taxes is the answer - along with defunding Medicare and Medicaid. After all, it is FOX.
Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 12:17:40
In reply to Re: yes. :.((((((((((((( » Phillipa, posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 10:41:50
> But the APA has decided that Aspergers isn't a disorder, so did he ever have it?
This is disinformation.
The APA has decided to include Aspergers in the diagnostic category of autism spectrum disorder - something that nearly every mental health professional knows it is.
"The familiar "Asperger's," along with some similar disorders, will be lumped together under autism spectrum disorder, "to help more accurately and consistently diagnose children with autism," the APA said in a statement."
Anyway...
- Scott
Posted by hyperfocus on December 18, 2012, at 12:37:28
In reply to horrid tragedy in CT - 27 dead in elementry school, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 14, 2012, at 14:16:47
People are calling this kid evil and a psychopath and not to take anything from the incredible evil acts he did; but to me he is also a victim. I just wonder what combination of mental illness and circumstances drove him to this.
It sounds like he definitely had Asperger's but it's only a very small piece of the story. All autistic kids struggle with rage and some can be violent, but violence against family or innocent bystanders or weaker people isn't something that happens with Asperger's AFAIK -- in fact it's quite the opposite.
I mean I can't honestly say that I never had fantasies of getting revenge over the people in school who rejected and made my life miserable. But the people he shot weren't his peers. And his mother -- the person who loved him the most and who made him the center of her life? Was it some kind of psychotic break?
I'm just utterly and totally baffled by this. I grieve for a life that could have done a lot of good and helped a lot of people, in different circumstances.
Posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 12:53:38
In reply to Re: Adam Lanza, posted by hyperfocus on December 18, 2012, at 12:37:28
Hyperfocus,
I understand your perspective, and agree with you.
This thing is sad from whatever angle you look at it.
- Scott
> People are calling this kid evil and a psychopath and not to take anything from the incredible evil acts he did; but to me he is also a victim. I just wonder what combination of mental illness and circumstances drove him to this.
>
> It sounds like he definitely had Asperger's but it's only a very small piece of the story. All autistic kids struggle with rage and some can be violent, but violence against family or innocent bystanders or weaker people isn't something that happens with Asperger's AFAIK -- in fact it's quite the opposite.
>
> I mean I can't honestly say that I never had fantasies of getting revenge over the people in school who rejected and made my life miserable. But the people he shot weren't his peers. And his mother -- the person who loved him the most and who made him the center of her life? Was it some kind of psychotic break?
>
> I'm just utterly and totally baffled by this. I grieve for a life that could have done a lot of good and helped a lot of people, in different circumstances.
Posted by sigismund on December 18, 2012, at 13:38:01
In reply to Re: yes. :.((((((((((((( » sleepygirl2, posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 10:52:33
>On Saturday, in the wake of the shooting in Connecticut where 26 people were killed at an elementary school, Mr Turnbull replied to a tweet by Mr Murdoch.
Advertisement
Terrible news today. When will politicians find courage to ban automatic weapons? As in Oz after similar tragedy, Mr Murdoch said.
Mr Turnbull then observed: @rupertmurdoch I suspect they will find the courage when Fox News enthusiastically campaigns for it.There have been 7 shootings like this in the last 2 years. I think. If that is so it is not rare. And once it is imaginable and real it is repeatable.
You don't have to be mentally ill to want to kill innocent people do you? Idk.
Posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 16:12:22
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 12:17:40
Scott, you are correct, I was misinformed. Thank you for the clarification.
I'm sorry the article is making people upset, that wasn't my intention and I wish I hadn't posted it.
I will continue to pray for the families as we all will. herpills
Posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 17:03:38
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 16:12:22
> Scott, you are correct, I was misinformed. Thank you for the clarification.
>
> I'm sorry the article is making people upset, that wasn't my intention and I wish I hadn't posted it.
>
> I will continue to pray for the families as we all will. herpills
Gun control is a very contentious subject. It seems to be as divisive as politics or religion. Passions run deep. I am undecided as to how to approach gun control. Let's just hope that the Supreme Court doesn't allow stinger missiles. The Second Ammendment is an enigma and open to a wide range of interpretations. I think the ammendment should be viewed in the historical context in which it was written. If the British Crown had made gun ownership illegal in the Colonies, there would have been no American Revolution. It is no wonder that the framers of the Bill of Rights should have had a sentimental attachment to gun ownership. However, they could not have predicted the inventions to come two hundred years later in gun technology. Interestingly, the inventor of the Gatling gun, Dr. Richard Gatling, was motivated to design a rapid-fire (200 rounds per minute) machine gun during the Civil War as a means to end all wars. It was meant to be a horrific deterrent in the same way we like to view nuclear weapons now. It wasn't.
- Scott
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 18, 2012, at 18:05:14
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by sigismund on December 18, 2012, at 13:38:01
Sig!! Where have you been? How are you?
I don't know about that last question.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 18, 2012, at 18:19:20
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 16:12:22
Doesn't upset me...
Don't worry herpills, the article has some valid points, it's just mixed with lots of stuff.
Btw, I think I got 20 minutes during my one and only hospitalization, a little over a week. And people have said moronic things to me too. Seems I never have a good comeback at the right moment, or maybe it isn't worth it??
We have to wonder how things can be better, in a lot of ways.
Posted by baseball55 on December 18, 2012, at 19:41:20
In reply to Re: yes. :.((((((((((((( » baseball55, posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 10:40:55
Well, I guess if you don't have insurance, they treat you differently. Everytime I was hospitalized (at least 8 times) I met with a psych, resident psych and social worker daily. The first time for an hour each, after that for 20-30 minutes a day. The nurses were amazingly well-trained and helpful. That's my experience. But I live in Boston, where most of the hospitals are non-profit teaching hospitals. The one time I was in a for-profit hospital, it was awful.
Posted by baseball55 on December 18, 2012, at 19:42:40
In reply to Re: yes. :.((((((((((((( » Phillipa, posted by herpills on December 18, 2012, at 10:41:50
There's no evidence he had Asperger's or anything else. The press has been all over this and has found no evidence of diagnosis or treatment for anything.
Posted by baseball55 on December 18, 2012, at 19:50:13
In reply to Re: yes. :.(((((((((((((, posted by baseball55 on December 18, 2012, at 19:42:40
I just finished reading an amazing book called Violence by James Gilligan, who was the medical director for the Massachusetts Corrections Department for a decade and worked as chief psychiatrist for the state hospital for the criminally insane for a decade before that. His understanding of what causes violent behavior is really interesting and is based on years of patient interviews and case studies. He does not mention mental illness once, except in the sense that killing people, in general, seems crazy to those without a propensity toward violence.
Posted by sigismund on December 18, 2012, at 22:02:52
In reply to violence, posted by baseball55 on December 18, 2012, at 19:50:13
G'day :) I was in Cusco. Habloing espanol.
Have any of these massacres been performed by women? It's the same here perhaps...a subset of men who are violent all round, including to other men. But why?
When did this start anyway? Have these things always existed? I do remember a time before any airport security, when the thought of blowing up a plane had never occurred.
But where I live now there is a lot of pointless violence. You can be killed at 1am by someone you don't know for no reason at all (which is new).
I was struck by the Peruvians. They can, of course, be violent too, but there is a culture (not always complied with) of public politeness and non-expression of anger. Now that I think of it most of the world I have seen is like that. East Asia, anyway.
One review of Cormac McCarthy (AS Byatt?) said his subject was American rage, but this was not enlarged upon.
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 22:05:21
In reply to violence, posted by baseball55 on December 18, 2012, at 19:50:13
Yes you are right the Asperger's was/is just a possibility. Here's another update yesterdays
http://www.voxxi.com/adam-lanza-mental-health-profile-killer/
Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2012, at 23:04:37
In reply to Re: violence » baseball55, posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 22:05:21
the fact that he had mental illness, asperger's....may have caused the rejection and the hatred to do this....but he choose to get the gun and do all this...that right there is a criminal act, mental illness or not. People who are truely insane and kill someone while they are not with reality....i mean like seeing no wrong in it, psychopath persona...well i could be wrong but choice cause the effect. Just the way I see it....hate builds up, resentment, thoughts of punishment to the imagined source, and then action is taken....these people over the years where young people, not all the cases, but teenage, and 20's....
a term that's outdated, mental derangement....but its an old term for someone who is "insane" but is fueled by hate, and rage coming from the chaos in the their mind, social withdrawl, mental disturbance that is disturbing to the public eye. The biblical term for this usally it was associated by being tormented by demonic forces in the mind, eat flesh, slash themselves daily until the whole body has ripped skin...have riddle like thinking...and sometimes make no sense and usally they killed themselves too....judas iscariot, many other that are not documented. But not all this is documented fact, just my view from reading. But deranged people are disturbed and they will kill when it comes to their mind....that's why old psychatric institutions used to treat the patients like sh*t because they saw them as "low" and no good.
You know they can have all the awareness classes of homocide, inform people why people do it...but some people act smart and keep their plans under their belt, hidden hate....gun control....you know if the US totally banned it...there would be lots of commotion and the blackmarket sales would go up just like alcohol prohabition in the 1920's. ....more crime...goverment resistnace, and more gangs and underground orginaztions would form.....
keep the eyes open, i have to say a good system would be having a mircochip in everyone monitering...and everyone follow the law...but that's like the endtimes 666 chip.
Just more awareness of this will help it be prevented.r
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2012, at 19:13:10
In reply to Re: violence, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2012, at 23:04:37
RJ I think the Asperger's was kind of ruled out. But no idea what the word is today. Will have to look. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2012, at 19:17:54
In reply to Re: violence, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2012, at 23:04:37
Posted by Beckett on December 21, 2012, at 11:12:05
In reply to Re: violence )SG, posted by sigismund on December 18, 2012, at 22:02:52
> G'day :) I was in Cusco. Habloing espanol.
>
> Have any of these massacres been performed by women? It's the same here perhaps...a subset of men who are violent all round, including to other men. But why?
>
> When did this start anyway? Have these things always existed? I do remember a time before any airport security, when the thought of blowing up a plane had never occurred.
>
> But where I live now there is a lot of pointless violence. You can be killed at 1am by someone you don't know for no reason at all (which is new).
>
> I was struck by the Peruvians. They can, of course, be violent too, but there is a culture (not always complied with) of public politeness and non-expression of anger. Now that I think of it most of the world I have seen is like that. East Asia, anyway.
>
> One review of Cormac McCarthy (AS Byatt?) said his subject was American rage, but this was not enlarged upon.This reminds me of comments by Michael Moore. He seemed almost overcome. http://youtu.be/JZzrpEpezL8
This is the end of the thread.
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