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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 17:11:40
In reply to Re: Thanks » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on September 9, 2011, at 22:27:00
Hazel sounds adorable. And I love old dogs - just love them.
My spaniel is mercifully quiet. A nice contrast to the mouthy sheepdogs - who, as a class of dog, have a great love of hearing themselves speak. The younger one just seems to have the sense to realize that if he continues to bark, he'll have to come inside. But she's just an abnormally large Cavalier, so I suppose her breeding is more lapdog than sporting dog. On the other hand, she was quite a ratter in her younger days. It led to some shocking surprises as she came inside on occasion, and a change in household routine to carefully inspect the dogs before opening the door.
I'm considering whether I should suggest an on leash meeting of the various neighborhood dogs. Neither of my dogs is particularly aggressive, and I'm wondering if meeting their fence nemeses might cut down on the cacophony. It might depend on whether the neighbor dogs are aggressive or merely enjoying an imaginary foe.
Posted by Solstice on September 10, 2011, at 17:47:10
In reply to Re: Thanks » Solstice, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 16:57:15
> I'd be delighted. It's something I've studied a great deal, breeds and personality.
I figured you'd be a virtual encyclopedia! As a child, we had a basenji/rat terrier mix. She was the most intelligent, incredible dog on the planet. She did not get any formal training.. but she just "knew" all kinds of stuff. We got her before my baby sister was born when I was 11, and we just marveled at how even as a pup, Tipper knew the difference between her toys, and the baby's. And she'd lay right next to the baby's blanket on the floor, but would never get *on* the baby's blanket. A year later we moved and lived in a quad-level house. There were no barriers - but she *knew* she wasn't supposed to be anywhere but the ground-floor level, which was a large den. If we were on the next level where the kitchen and formal dining and living rooms were, she would lay on the bottom step - but would never go higher. She was a cool-headed dog. And she happened to inherit the basenji's lack of barking. After she died, my mom got a couple of poodles, and bred them. They had a variety of personalities and were all neurotic in one way or another :-) .. in funny kinds of ways. One of them drove my mom nuts because she was so attached to mom. That dog had its cold wet nose on the back of my mom's leg all day long, and had terrible separation anxiety.
My experience is limited, but do you think mixed-breed, or mutts, have more stable temperaments than purebred dogs?
>I've narrowed the huge range of dog breeds I'd like to have to just a few I *should* have. Just as well given my age, and the small number of dogs in my future.
My word! You make yourself sound like you're 91!
> The variability of dogs as a species is astonishing.What breeds are at the top of your list, and why?
Solstice
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 20:15:09
In reply to Re: Thanks, posted by Solstice on September 10, 2011, at 17:47:10
I wouldn't say more stable temperaments, just because a well bred purebred dog will have a very predictable temperament. There are some breeds that do tend to be neurotic, but even then you know it going in. If you can tell the heritage of a mixed breed, you can have some idea of what you're getting. But a mix between a terrier and a spaniel could have a wide range of characteristics. My very first, sainted dog, had this mix but was all cocker in looks and temperament.
But mind you, I say well bred. I generally always look for breeders who do obedience with their dogs. Obedience dogs aren't likely to be too flaky, although depending on the breed they might have other undesirable qualities if not kept engaged and challenged.
But then, since I've always had a small pack of dogs, and since I prefer a rather limited range of desirable personality characteristics, predictability is very important to me. More important than it might be for others. I know when I buy a Maltese from a good breeder, that dog is going to act and think like a toy spaniel, not a toy terrier.
There's a wider gene pool among mixed breeds so there might be fewer genetic issues. Fewer but not none. Definitely it helps to look into genetic issues with any particular breed, or obvious breeds with a mixed breed.
For me, my ideal profile would be low dominance with people and animals, high agreeableness and responsiveness, and a certain liveliness of mind. If you combine that with size and coat characteristics I prefer, it leaves me with a few breeds or groups of breeds. The toy spaniels, particularly the agreeable and lively ones like Maltese or Papillons or Havanese or possibly Cavaliers or Chin. For bigger dogs, I started out with a dog from the sheepdog family and when I adopted another after years of not having one, I realized this was my group of dogs. Collies, Shelties, or a relatively calm Aussie. Border collies would be wonderful, but I think they are a bit too much dog for me.
And oddly enough, or perhaps not so oddly if you know them, I adore sighthounds. I was planning on an Italian Greyhound being my next dog, but have been a bit put off by the high numbers of bone breaks. I think I may have to give up on that idea.
I'd love to have a Newfie, but my husband hates drool, and I worry that I'm not dominant enough for even the gentlest giants.
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 20:33:47
In reply to Re: Thanks, posted by Solstice on September 10, 2011, at 17:47:10
By the way, I have always loved Basenjis. They have faces that seem human in their expressiveness.
Posted by Solstice on September 10, 2011, at 20:50:23
In reply to Re: Thanks » Solstice, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 20:15:09
I have never even heard of most of those toy spaniel breeds! I looked them up, and they are all absolutely adorable. The only thing that would worry me is... how on earth do you manage all that hair in a hot & humid climate? (I'm not in NO, but my climate is likely very similar to yours). The basenji/rat terrier mix I had growing up was very short-haired. We went from that to poodles, which don't shed. So I guess i have to figure out whether I'm afraid of hair - but I'm interested in knowing how it works for you. Since you have several dogs, I'm guessing it's impractical to bathe them frequently.. I mean you work and have a family.. so please give me an idea how you manage all that hair!
Sol
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 21:02:20
In reply to Re: Thanks » Dinah, posted by Solstice on September 10, 2011, at 20:50:23
It's not bad. You have to brush them out once a week or so, maybe a bit more often with the Maltese. But I get him professionally clipped every few months, and I trim the hair around his eyes a bit more often. The latest puppy ate his topknot. It's a bit more difficult lately because he likes to stand directly underneath the sick dog as I toss her food, so he ends up with food in his coat.
It would probably be harder if they weren't largely inside dogs. The Maltese is a dirt magnet outdoors.
I probably don't bathe them as often as I ought. But I do try to keep them tangle free.
Some long coats are easier to care for than others.
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 21:06:14
In reply to :) » Solstice, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 21:02:20
They do shed, however. Even a weekly sweeping gathers up an extra dog's worth of hair. Fortunately we aren't overly concerned about dog hair or a bit of tracked mud. I'm so used to dog hairs on my clothes that I doubt I notice them. My work clothes or Sunday clothes aren't worn around the house though, so it's probably not too bad.
Poodles may not shed, but they pose as many grooming issues as any dog I've ever owned. A regular groomer's appointment was a must.
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2011, at 21:11:23
In reply to Re: :), posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 21:06:14
Dinah we groom our dogs ourselves. Got a good pair of groomer clippers and scissors and that's it. And I love poodles and poodle breeds as they are so smart. Also hypoallergetic. So 200 words is what I read that poodles can and do learn so easy to train. As for the walks. I take the poodle Teddy, Chloe is with Greg. I have favorites too :) Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 21:16:10
In reply to Re: :) » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2011, at 21:11:23
It's hard not to. Dogs aren't all alike, and some touch our hearts more than others. But... The more you put into a dog the more you get out. So favorite or not, it might be a good investment to spend time with Chloe. Sometimes the issues we have with dogs, like the issues we have with people, snowball. Easier said than done, I know.
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 21:17:41
In reply to Re: :) » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2011, at 21:11:23
I admire your grooming skills. I try to do my spaniel now myself, but she looks pretty awful for a few weeks after I clip her.
She kept getting ear infections when I brought her to be groomed...
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2011, at 21:43:29
In reply to Re: :) » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 21:17:41
Unclean clippers maybe. I give Chloe her bath and feed her, give her treats, fix her bed at night, brush and comb her. Even monetarily pay for all her stuff. Seems the Shitzu is one of the royalty breeds and not that intelligent? Teddy I taught to smile when we come home all teeth!!!! You should see it!!!!! Phillipa
Posted by jane d on September 11, 2011, at 3:27:12
In reply to Re: Thanks » Solstice, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 20:15:09
> I know when I buy a Maltese from a good breeder, that dog is going to act and think like a toy spaniel, not a toy terrier.
...
>The toy spaniels, particularly the agreeable and lively ones like Maltese or Papillons or Havanese or possibly Cavaliers or Chin.
Maltese and Papillons are spaniels? Are they related to the larger spaniels or are they called that because they resemble them? I think I may have missed something key in dog taxonomy.
Help!
Jane
Posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 8:01:25
In reply to Toy spaniels? » Dinah, posted by jane d on September 11, 2011, at 3:27:12
I don't think papillions are spaniels, but man, are they are so smart, funny, and most clownishly lovely dogs. Made of springs. But I have never met one fully housebroken yet. Would need hardwood floors all throughout the house....
Unless we have a dog whisperer among us.
I love papillions but cannot abide the urine.
Are they spaniels? I think they are of Japanese descent.....
We fostered one. I still miss her. Little dignified goof.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 8:10:37
In reply to Toy spaniels? » Dinah, posted by jane d on September 11, 2011, at 3:27:12
http://www.akc.org/breeds/toy_group.cfm
Has anyone here had luck with the toys as far as housebreaking? Please consdider divulging your techniques.
If my son gets his way with a pekingnese.....
Posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 8:17:36
In reply to Toy spaniels? » Dinah, posted by jane d on September 11, 2011, at 3:27:12
http://www.akc.org/breeds/papillon/index.cfm
I was totally wrong. Except for housebreaking, which is politely omitted.
Posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 9:17:50
In reply to Re: Thanks » Solstice, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2011, at 20:15:09
The Italian Greyhound is very appealing to me. Tell me what you`ve heard about bone breaks? Are there situations where that is more - or less - likely?
Sol
Posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 9:20:41
In reply to Re: Thanks » Dinah, posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 9:17:50
> The Italian Greyhound is very appealing to me. Tell me what you`ve heard about bone breaks? Are there situations where that is more - or less - likely?
>
> SolSol, are those the smaller ones?
Posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 10:54:48
In reply to Re: Thanks » Solstice, posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 9:20:41
> > The Italian Greyhound is very appealing to me. Tell me what you`ve heard about bone breaks? Are there situations where that is more - or less - likely?
> >
> > Sol
>
> Sol, are those the smaller ones?
>Yes.. the Italian Greyhounds are tiny - from 7 - 15 inches at the shoulder. I'm guessing they do better in 'adult' households (my kids are not little), and without big dogs as companions.
Sol
Posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 10:56:30
In reply to Re: Thanks » floatingbridge, posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 10:54:48
> > > The Italian Greyhound is very appealing to me. Tell me what you`ve heard about bone breaks? Are there situations where that is more - or less - likely?
> > >
> > > Sol
> >
> > Sol, are those the smaller ones?
> >
>
> Yes.. the Italian Greyhounds are tiny - from 7 - 15 inches at the shoulder. I'm guessing they do better in 'adult' households (my kids are not little), and without big dogs as companions.
>
> SolSorry! Not 7 - 15 inches - it's 12 - 15 inches.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 11:19:20
In reply to Re: Thanks, posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 10:56:30
Our tiny papillon was fragile-boned. We were advised not to let her jump from the couch to the floor. This was over cautious by far. And the absurdity of even trying to forbid her to jump. She was all spring :-)
Re: the greyhounds, I'll let Dinah speak to the realities of that breed. They are so elegant!
(We were also advised not to let our doxie jump to protect his spine, but he has proved to be vigorous and athletic--a real earth dog. When we first got him, so many people would ask about his spine, we were petrified he'd end up in one of those little two wheeled dog carts w/paralyzed back legs. Nope. He's just sleepy and arthritic and old now.....)
Posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 12:26:23
In reply to Re: Thanks » Solstice, posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 11:19:20
> Our tiny papillon was fragile-boned. We were advised not to let her jump from the couch to the floor. This was over cautious by far. And the absurdity of even trying to forbid her to jump. She was all spring :-)
>
> Re: the greyhounds, I'll let Dinah speak to the realities of that breed. They are so elegant!
>
> (We were also advised not to let our doxie jump to protect his spine, but he has proved to be vigorous and athletic--a real earth dog. When we first got him, so many people would ask about his spine, we were petrified he'd end up in one of those little two wheeled dog carts w/paralyzed back legs. Nope. He's just sleepy and arthritic and old now.....)I guess I'd have to worry about my wood and tile floors :-(
Maybe if you can just get them past puppy-hood, the greyhounds are ok? From what I've read, they are supposed to be fairly calm, and their strongest tendency is to just be demanding of their owners for attention and affection - as opposed to being highly active.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 12:49:52
In reply to Re: Thanks » floatingbridge, posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 12:26:23
What I know about greyhounds is from friends who adopted and rehabilitated the racing greyhounds. We used to live where this sport was very popular. So these are the standard greyhounds.
My observations of these standards were that they were indeed very bonded to their owners, often leaning into them gently and being near them, though not underfoot. One issue was that they would be among the most obedient dogs on earth, but would take chase after something every so often,
and I mean just fly off for blocks and blocks, leaving their too
trusting owner walking around calling with an empty lead in their hands.This could have been prevented by never letting them off lead to begin with, but as a dog lover, I find that too difficult
sometimes. And I have a doxie that will just wander off just
when he knows my attention is elsewhere. Once, he ran at top speed, across an about 1.5 acre lawn into someone's bona fide mansion where people where milling about in suits and pearls drinking cocktails. He ran straight into the house (a rather quaint term for such a structure) while I huffed
across the lawn with an infant strapped to my chest in a
carrier. He would not come out for nothing as I stood, very embarrassed, a winded, sweating, and disheveled hippie-type, on the patio steps waiting for someone to retrieve him from the inner recesses of the house.He has since been allowed off lead....
Dogs. Once they get you, well, I find I am not always the owner but that the roles switch back and forth.
By the way. If you are courting the idea of getting a dog :-). (a great idea IMHO) the affection, bonding does not always work in a straight line, like instant love. Though it can and
does often. I have found it has taken me some time with some dogs, like my spaniel, to find the deep places.But you'll probably find that love place pretty quick. Very good luck if you go forward. I can only say dogs are an incredible inconvenience and an indispensable joy. *Sigh*
BTW, I truly miss my cat as well. She trained our dogs to be good canine citizens.
Posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 13:52:36
In reply to Re: Thanks » Solstice, posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2011, at 12:49:52
Dinah and Fb -
Thanks to both of you for so much info to mull over! Keep it coming :-)
said
I did a quick search of non-shedding, odor-free dogs (well, I doubt completely odor-free, but you know what I mean). Anyway, The short-list included Chinese Crested. I thought it was such a cool looking dog! But my son thought it looked weird. I still think they look cool.As for attachment, I get attached to anything I take care of. I was never a cat-person.. but my oldest daughter was, from the age of 4. We'd walk around the neighborhood, and she noticed every cat (I didn't), and begged and begged to have one. We finally ended up with one sort of accidentally, when she was 11. At my office, a co-worker was a cat-rescue person and had taken in a cat found at our office building looking like it had been without care for a long time. This co-worker went from office to office trying to find someone willing to take the cat. Their vet had discovered he had FIV (aka kitty-aids), and the policy was to put them to sleep since it was too difficult to place them. But, this cat was so personable, that my co-worker was very distressed about him being put down. So when she got to my office, I said "Well, I've never been a cat-person.. but my daughter.." and that was all it took. She said "If you'll take him just for two weeks, I'll give you every thing you need.. food, litter box, litter, brush.. etc. so if you'll just take him for two weeks.. and if you really can't stand it, bring him back to me." How could I lose? And let me tell you, I was one popular mama with my kiddos :-) So I brought that cat home. We named him Oliver. And before the first night was over, all of us were in love and we worshiped that cat till the day he died in our arms. He lived for five years once we got him (and he was probably about 5 when we got him).. and he was like a dog in a cat-body. Came when we said his name.. would lay in our arms on his back and let us nuzzle him and rub his tummy (cats don't do that :-).. and he would let us hold him, his belly against us and his head nuzzled against our necks. The most lovable cat you've ever seen. Polite, friendly, sociable. And beautiful to behold. When he died we had a ceremony in the back yard, and buried him at the foot of our grapefruit tree. sigh. so I guess I had become a cat-person by accident :-) Oliver could shed quite a bit of hair, but I enjoyed cats' bodies being odor-free. you just gotta keep that litter box cleaned out.
And we did adopt other cats after Oliver. When the vet told me he thought Oliver was close to the end of his life, I went to a cat rescue place and they had a cat they named "Romeo" - who also had FIV. That made him a perfect choice, since FIV is contagious to other cats. Oliver lived more than a year, and he and Romeo were best buds. At some point, we found out Romeo was actually a girl.. and after Oliver died we talked about getting a male cat and naming him Juliette. Romeo was so much like Oliver - a big baby who would sleep up against you and let you hold her for hours on end. After he died, the other cats we adopted had classic cat temperaments. The one we have now is an outside cat. We had another one who was very cool (I called him "Boss"), but he ran off last year. That's how cats can be :-( The one we have now has been here for a few years. Never could figure out what to call him - so we've been just calling him 'kitten' ever since we adopted him at about 12 weeks old. He comes around to eat.. but won't let you pick him up. He brings us lots of birds, and an occasional rodent. That's a kind of gross thing about having an outdoor cat.. because they tend to leave these 'gifts' right on the porch, or on the walkway where you'll be sure to see it. Yuck. Oh - and any pet I have is always neutered.
So.. I may be ready to return to the world of dogs.. if I can find one that doesn't stink real bad. Seems like a lot of these sighthounds meet that criteria.. I keep hearing/reading about some being hard to house train, though. I'm not sure what that means. Can't tell if it's that they just don't respond to training at all, or whether it's just that they don't automatically train and the ones who don't train just happen to have owners who don't know how to do it.
but keep talking to me! I'm enjoying getting the insight.
Solstice
Posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2011, at 19:46:36
In reply to Re: Thanks, posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 13:52:36
8 weeks old our poodle Teddy first night with us slept in bed with us. When at 5am he had to pee he licked my husbands face and he took him out. This is the only dog who never in his 7 years of life never make a mistake. Housebroken from day one. And good? Always smiles big toothed smile when we get home. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2011, at 20:22:30
In reply to Re: Thanks » Dinah, posted by Solstice on September 11, 2011, at 9:17:50
I think there's a genetic problem involved. Some lines are more prone to bone breaks than others. All puppies should be confined in areas where they can't jump, particularly when no one is around. And sometimes even if you're very careful a bone may break.
I've had at least one vet warn me off completely. But my vet is a bit less negative about it. He says it's a breed issue like many other breed issues.
BTW, you might want to look into teeth issues with Chinese Cresteds. At least the hairless sort. And allergies. It's a breed I find very attractive, but they have unusual dental issues.
Papillons are definitely spaniels. They are descended from those small european spaniels that you always see curled up at someone's feet or playing with children.
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